Rocky Mountain Football League

Makes more sense to me. All the elite teams are in UT so why not ?.

I'm pretty sure the other states besides Utah will take offense. I understand they're complaint is travel or they make another AA team cause they don't get along or don't wanna drive the hour to practice (understandable). But why do we keep creating more AA teams, just tell them to jump on an existing team and create more talent, more money to a team for travelling. Just my opinion and since no one knows me or what team I'm on i won't give the "expressed opinion" not gospel doctrine notice 

I am not going to comment on the split, or the league in general at this time. I have enjoyed my time in the RMFL. I have enjoyed my trips, my friendships, and all that has come of it. I see arguments for both sides.

However, I will voice my opinion for one thing. And I think many of you already heard it at the league meeting. I think that it is rediculous that a brand new team, or even a ten year veteran team in the AA has equal votes as an established AAA team. Especially when deciding league split. Now, having said that, the reality is that many of these issues we are dealing with have come because of language that was put into place during the split years ago. Back when those who were present had a vision for the split league. A vision where teams would fight to get into the AAA.

Now, there are lots of scenarios, issues, and other things that can be discussed, debated, or argued over. HOWEVER, the season is upon us. A lock-out would benefit nobody. And therefore, these topics and discussions do nothing productive until the season at hand is over and the champions are crowned. At the conclusion of this season lets hash it out. Lets test the mettle of this league and its ownership. Lets determine where we are going and what is in best interest of the teams and the league.

I for one think the RMFL is a strong league. A league that will continue on for many years to come. A league with good leadership. It just has too many voices on managing board that do not see eye to eye or the overall vision. Sometimes restructure is good, sometimes attrition is good. Who is to say that by splitting into two leagues wouldn't be the healthiest thing in the long run for all involved. But who is to say they won't all fail. Nobody can!! But after the season ends, and our committments we made in January to this league and our leadership is complete. This topic should be a moot point.

Good luck to all as we begin this season. May you all stay healthy.. And to all those in management, when the time comes lets put our pride and selfishness aside and do whats best for the 30 or so teams involved.

huh wierd thought for sure there would be a hundred peeps on here blown this board up after that rant. must have more truth in it that i thought either that or the management put a muzzle on the players for up north. Even old man bennet has been quiet on this one. good thing all ur post are not just hot air and have no truth to them lol

The Rocky Mountain Football League (RMFL) is established to provided competitive, pro-style, recreational tackle football play for adult (18 and over) players at all levels of playing skills in the Rocky Mountain Region of the United States of America. The RMFL was developed with the philosophy that sportsmanship, team-building and simple opportunity to play football for average to star players are its underlying principles and objectives and all other league goals shall be subservient.

 

I won't pretend to know all of the beefs Kyto and others may have with the league, but the above is copied from the league's front page mission statement. It would appear from Kyto's post that maybe he (and others) do not agree with this statement, in which case they should have the opportunity to at least make a motion to change it or, if that's not possible, to leave and form their own league as they have stated the might be thinking of doing. Here's my 2 cents from the front porch, although I will admit it might not be worth even that.

At least some of Kyto's complaint seems to be a result of the bias in scheduling that Great Falls benefited from and the Shock have gotten the worst of. This complaint seems at least somewhat justified from the little info I've seen posted on this site. No doubt Great Falls was catered to, apparently (from what i can see just reading the leage meeting notes) as a trade off for agreeing to go AAA. But if you look at the past league rules it used to be a REQUIREMENT that AA champs automatically move up to AAA the next year and AA runners-up would also consider this move. Meanwhile the bottom 2 AAA teams would drop back to AA. This pattern has not been followed at least in the last 2 years on either the AA or AAA side, so has this rule changed or simply been ignored? I think the biggest  wrong in this matter is that teams like Great Falls and Idaho Falls circumvented the rule using excuses such as travel and whatever else AND THE REST OF THE LEAGUE ALLOWED THIS. Greats Falls has had a team since 1999 and that team, military and all, never complained about travel and just showed up. By the way, all their games were out of state. Idaho Falls even spent a whole season traveling to Utah, with a lot smaller roster than they have now. Hindsight is 20/20, but maybe the vote and consensus back when these teams made their ultimatums should have been "if you want to threaten us with leaving the league rather than follow our rules, go ahead and leave and see how well the RMFL continues to do without you!"

The other major part that I could gather out of Kyto's post is that he feels more teams should be stepping up to AAA status and some of the AA teams are making the rest of the league look bad, or in other words some want a more "semi-pro" league while others are happy with and settling for a "rec" league. I agree more teams should be stepping up to AAA, but looking back to the rule above, in reality the number of AA SHOULD be growing each year while the AAA (by rule anyway) should be the same or maybe even 1 team less each year. Now I don't agree with the rule from the past and I believe it does need to be updated if it hasn't been already, but consider this also: 1) The league RARELY lets new teams become AAA their first year, so AA is going to grow by more teams faster. and 2) By Kyto's own alternative league plan, he is calling for 10 solid teams-most being in Utah as the best teams are currently there. You already have a 9 team AAA this year, so is having just 1 more team step up and forming a new league really going to get you anything more than what you already have? And it has been stated the AAA teams are all anyone ever thinks of and associates the RMFL with when it comes up now, so why should the AAA teams have to leave and from their own new league when they have contributed more to make the name than most AA teams? Or better yet why then does it matter if AA teams don't look as "professional?" I know it's frustrating for those that do put in the effort, but this has gone on since the days of the Kangaroos. Some things, especially at the AA level, are not worth making a big deal over, but other things should make you think about throwing teams out for good (fighting, and other behavior bordering on being illegal, as well as no-showing for games which has been a continued problem as bad as it was years ago). Don't forget, many of you AAA teams gave the "yes" vote to let these AA teams in, so unless there's a rule violation and you're willing to deal with it and dish out the appropriate penalties-DON'T COMPLAIN, OR DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I will say however that no way AAA teams should have more voting power than AA, but maybe there needs to be 2 separate boards or at the very least AAA and AA teams vote only on their respective division's issues, with a CLEAR set of rules in place for any crossover issues and a CONCRETE following of these rules so teams cannot wiggle out of them or make demands/threats if a rule does not go their way.

Based on the results from the past seasons I think the AAA could be set up as follows:

Clear AAA teams (or at least should be): Shock, Revolution, Rebels, Mudducks, Stealth, Logan, Great Falls, Spartans, Arco

AAA because they want to be, although they might be better competitive in AA: Magic Valley

The following could or should be AAA, but I'll note some problems:

Matadors (Lost some key players to an expansion team, and have multiple teams in a fairly small populated area. They are probably more AA now than AAA)

Idaho Falls (Talked of going AAA after last year but lost their leader and best player)

Snake River (Had their first winning season last year and fell short in the AA championship-could use 1 more year to see if the really belong)

Mini-Cassia (Similar to Snake River. These guys probably need 1 more year at AA)

Missoula-(Have periodically lost players due to expansion of other teams in their area)

Bitterroot (similar to Missoula, plus a very small population base. But they have been competitive in AAA before)

Billings (Weren't these guys supposed to be loaded with former real semi-pro players?)

This could give the AAA a Utah division with 6 teams, and Idaho division with 4-6 teams, and a Montana division at 4 teams. Solid right? But look what happens to the AA division:

3 Utah, 3-5 Idaho, 2 Montana

AA could do it, but they would have to really travel their butts off. AAA can more easily make it with traveling, depth and everything else involved with AAA organizion. Although it may make for a better AAA I don't think AA would last with the division setup I have outlined above, and ultimately these AA teams would probably end up folding and a lot of guys wouldn't have the opportunity to get the chance to keep playing football. And wouldn't that go against EXACTLY what the RMFL was established for, and the mission statement says?

OK, I realize I've gone way over my 2 cents and the worth of this post is arguably worth even less. It should be realized however that there are a lot of good people in the league regardless of if they have different opinions or visions on every specific issue and topic.  I KNOW there are MANY people who have contributed and made the RMFL the great league it has become. Kyto has already posted his accomplishments, but many others (including some great AA leaders) have also contrubuted greatly, in some cases more than some AAA teams. Please read the mission statement again, or if you can find it, read what Neumeier said in his closing retirement speech about what the league represents and has been for over the years. I'm hopeful with all the great minds in the league it will continue and get even better, change sometimes doesn't have to be that big if you can get great minds to compromise and work it out for the best of all involved.

 

 

 

FINALLY, some great posts responding to my thread.

People who actually took what I said in context and didn't think I was holding the league hostage or something.

The best I've seen there is "let's evaulate our thought process".



Oh, and while we're at it, I was doing some googling and got in contact with a Nike Rep who is interested in partnering with the RMFL (Do you guys see what I did there? Probably not, because the thread got deleted) But, the first thing he said to me was, "Well, I was interested in discussing with your league the potential of a partnership, but I have no way to contact your league leaders. There is no contact information on your website."

Well, I gave him Golden's number, so hopefully this will get the ball rolling, but then again, anyone could've done this by googling some things right?

For the record, The Shock is still part of the Rocky Mountain Football League, we will be at all our games, we will host all our home games, we'll follow all league rules, we'll pay all league fees, just like we have since 2005. I think some of you think that we don't know that.

I've come to learn through my many phone calls, emails, and texts that there is not a clear definition of where this league wants to go. What the major difference in AA/AAA is. I've offered up a solution, but maybe another solution is A/AA/AAA split. A - Teams who just want to play football with a set of rules and guidelines. AA - Teams who have their sight set on bigger things than just playing football. AAA - Upper echelon of semi-pro football.

There was also a question of what is semi-pro? Is it the players getting paid? Coaches? Semi-pro is how your organization is perceived by the local community, media, and those associated with the league. Yeah, we may not get paid to play persay, but when a company cuts a check for hundreds and thousands of dollars, they are paying that GM, that team, that player, to represent their company while they are on the clock representing that team.

I've never been one to tell my players how to act on this forum, or how to act when they are out and about. But I've always told my players that when they where the Shock uniform or at a Shock function, they are representing more than their football team. But the team that is associated with a city, school, charities, and sponsors who PAY PLAYERS to represent their businesses while they are putting a product on the field.

That is what I consider SEMI-PRO.

Some of you call this a hobby, and it's suppose to be fun, but a hobby doesn't have much responsibilities. You don't wanna go fishing, don't go. Doesn't hurt anyone except for the fish. When you are a part of a team who is sponsored, or a part of a league that you committed to pay or to show up and put on a good product, then it really is more than just a hobby. This is and always will be more than just a hobby if you run a team in this league. It's a hobby if you just play. You can show up or don't. When you run a team, it's not a hobby, because there are certain requirements that YOU are responsible for.

My hobby is playing football, and as much as I enjoy running the Shock, it's more than just a hobby. Because if things don't get done, it affects more than just me.

Keep the conversation going.

Thanks 44 and Whetman.

I hve been reluctant to comment on this post because i agree with what most of Kyto has said about

"The RMFL is the RECREATIONAL MENS FOOTBALL LEAGUE."

My answer is... ya...duh.

What are we supposed to be?  THe league mission statement says it. The league is about giving guys an opportunity to play the game they love. And what does Semi Pro mean anyway? Whats the difference if we are a rec league or semi pro league? You answered that already, but I think it may have different meanings to people. Pretty much to me it means, you are a pro or you are not. YOu get paid or you dont. SIngle A baseball guys get paid a little,they are pro. If you get paid to compete you are a pro, we are not Pro, we dont even get kinda paid so we are not even Semi Pro. I think we call our self semi pro to feel better when we explain to people what the RMFL is.

When I signed up for this league in 1999, in wasnt about getting trophies, awards, corporate sponsors, recognition. I always thought the reason we play in this league is for the love of the game and for ...fun.

For the majority of guys I think it is pretty fair to say that is why we play. Because we love football.

"There are too many teams who just want to play football. They don’t care about looking top notch, getting corporate sponsors, or working together as a group to make our league elite. We have big numbers, but only 9 teams in the upper division of semi-pro football."

Just play football?? what is so bad about that? Isnt that the reason why we are here? I understand Kyto you put alot more work in the other players, owners, and pretty much everyone. If you put in all this work, it sounds like this " must be your passion." If it is great. If not thats ok too. Your organization, your friends, your league appreciates what you do. But like all men... we fail to recognize and say thank you enough. (Once you get married you will be reminded of that all the time).

"We arent running a country here.."

But surprisingly, it is pretty close to running a country. Remeber when the founders were writing the Constitution, the big debate was how will the states be represented in Congress? Big States vs Little States. Equal representation ( little states) or Proportional representation ( Big States). If you take away the AA teams rights or promote the rights of the AAA teams then you are creating inequality.

United we stand  divided we fail ring a bell?

It sounds like to me you want to divide up the RMFL? I thought you said a few months ago that if we create regional leagues then the league will fail? But now you are advocating for it?

"6 years since the split, and we have teams who are nowhere near the status of the ELITE teams on and off the field with the same saying power."

Why should elite teams have more saying power? Cause they have better players? WIn more games? What is an elite team? If we go 3-5 in the AAA are we elite? 

Greedy Owners?

Please explain. From my experience owners arent making a bunch of money on this league, even " Elite" teams. And if they are putting a few bucks in their pocket, dont they deserve some compensation. You work your ass off for the Shock, shouldnt the give you a little dough for what you do? But you probably dont take a penny, you just do it ---Cuz if you didnt you know that your team would be in trouble. You do it for the love of football.

My dad is a football coach, I am a football coach, I have played in this league for 13 years, coached for 8, ran a couple teams, coached powder puff football when I was in high school. I coach now and then for the same reason I play, For the love of the game.

When you leave this game and the league, you wont remeber awards, trophies, or even the game, you will remeber the relationships you built. That is what it is all about.

I think you are saying " I am sick of this sh$t, I work my ass of for other guys who dont appreciate it, I try to make my team the best we can, we compete at the highest level, we do this and that better than everyone else---so why doesnt other people put in the same effort I do!"  But maybe I am way off base.

Would it really make a difference if we rename the league? If it is that important that we have developmental league and a Semi pro league than I will support you. But do I still get to play football? Because that is why I am here. No other motives or agendas, just to play the game I love.

Some would say "strive to be the best" in all aspects of your team. On and off the field? What exactly do we need to do off the field?

"Strive to be the best!" "Your goal should be to be a AAA team!" WHy? My goal is to play football. I am a pretty good golfer but I dont strice to be the best, hell I get paid money ( club house credit) to play golf am I semi pro? SHould I quit because I dont want to strive to be something better. I also play rec league softball, we get sponsors and uniforms too. We are in the C- division, we drink to much, but why should we be punished just for wanting to have fun. I don't want to play in the A league in softball, they take it too serious. My point is, that it is ok for this to just be hobby.

Would it be better to call me a REC league golfer, a REC league softball player, a REC League pickleball player? (dont hate the sh%t is awesome)

You keep bringin up the point that we charge people to play, and if we charge them to watch us we should be putting the best products that we can. Well I agree, we should be organized and professional, but we dont force them to watch us. And the reason that most teams charge a gate, is to offset the cost of the field. I dont think we are entertainers.

I understand what you are saying about some teams just flat out ----sucking----. ON the field, their organization, everything they do is not up to par with other teams. But do they have a smile on their face after they play, do they have fun, do their kids run up to them and hug them after the game? And even if they got their @ss kicked and the other team said"we travelled all this way to kick the piss out of this sorry @ss team." Does it really matter? Its all about having fun.. thats it.

We are a Recreational League, nothing more, we do this for ---recreation or fun-.

"The best thing is if the RMFL didnt exist" Now that cuts a little deep. If the RMFL didnt exist, would you have all those friends that you now have from playing football? Would you have a public forum to express your opinions, and MOST importantly if you didnt have the RMFL would you have the opportunity to play the game that you love?

I have to agree with ol 44, the mission statement is pretty clear what this league is about. If you want to take your AAA Utah teams and make an Elite league that is above the RMFL than ok. But isnt that exactly what we have now. You guys are pretty much in your own conference with the exception of M.V and Boise.

If you make your own league, what will be the difference? It could be cheaper, more local games, better sponsor support, less travel, better competition? Maybe.

Isnt that what I was advocating for this winter and you were very opposed to it?

A   A/AA/AAA split would have the same problems we have now, and who would determine who goes where. If we want to play just for fun and we are pretty good are we single A or AA?

It sounds like you are saying " you other teams get better like we did or get out of the game? I have never like the idea of decreasing opportunities for anyone.

I just have a tough time seeing what your  team will gain by leaving the league? If you leave we have the RMFL and the UFL once again.

I get the feeling some people want teams to get better, and "strive for AAA" my answer is, I will strive to be the best in what matters most. I want to be the best dad, husband, friend, teacher, coach, and pickleball player. The other things I want, is  to just have fun, like fishing, softball, and football.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Holy Crap!! Jeb! That may have been the best post I have ever read on the RMFL site.  Thank you!!

Also, thank Kyto for bringing it all up in a constructive way and thank you 'ol 44 and Golden for also some great positive input.

This is how problems and differences get solved. Its the old leadership of 'ol 44 that set this up and the new leadership of guys like Golden and Kyto and veteran players like Jeb and Bryce that should help the decisions stay focused on what the real priorities are.

Thank you.

I do have to ask... what the heck is "pickleball"!?!??!?!?

Pickleball is pretty small, small tennis. Or super big ping pong. You have a racquet and use a whiffle ball, the net is like three feet high, about half the size of a tennis court. You play it just lke tennis but it doesnt kick your butt by running all over hell. But it is a good workout . It is pretty big in places like St. George and Phoenix--for sunbirds. But we have a pretty good league in Pocatello, with lots of ex tennis people and college kids. It gets serious.

Jared, thanks, and Tom got third in the senior Olympic games this summer in pickleball out of three. This old woman kicked his ass, but she used to play professional tennis.

No offense Tom, but yes you have used that as a scapegoat. In 2011, when there were literally only 6 AAA teams and myself and others did our best to lobby teams to see that having a 6 team AAA and 22 team AA was ridiculous, a number of AA teams saw the value in playing in the upper division. There easily could have been a 50/50 split of 14 teams per league, as the level of competition between the middle tiered teams is obvious. The excuse of "we don't wanna play the REV/Rebels" and "we want to earn it" wasn't given by the 4 teams that stepped up.

Honestly, I don't even know why you go through this every year. Rex Stacey is open and transparent about his desire to remain in the AA. He's states it loud and clear. You don't want to play in AAA, and that is fine. Kyto's frustration is just that. Teams basically state that they would rather beat the Wyoming Thunder 56-0 than play the majority of their season playing similarly competitive teams while having the competitive drive to play a Shock, Bears, REV or Rebels. It's that simple. To say you want to earn it is a scapegoat. Man up and play with the big boys. The Stampede have done it, the Anarchy have done it, Magic Valley have for consectutive years. Personally, I don't care where you play. But when there are 6 AAA teams in a year, and through a number of conversations with other teams, they decide to step up...and the Matadors don't. The 'earn' it statement becomes an excuse. I'm sure you'll dispute this. But a real competitor when challenged (AAA)...steps up . Someone who just wants to play for fun (AA)...doesn't.

Do I believe that teams should earn it to move up...YES.  Absolutely.  But when contraction in the AAA happens (teams folding, merging, etc) and expansion in the AA happens, as Kyto has explained, it's time for the teams who just wanna play to say so, and the teams that want to play competitive football, to DO so.

-- Edited by Golden11 on Saturday 3rd of March 2012 12:22:58 PM

AAA.. everything else is just a toy..

this whole problem started after the 2009 season when we got out of the RULES and written format. We have also had a problem with teams folding, (i.e. the Renegadws and Bears). That's something that we did not account for or put in the league rules. what happens if there are 10 AAA teams and one team folds? had the Bears not folded this year, we would have 10 AAA teams as we've had EVERY year i've been in the league. maybe we should address THIS issue rather than argue about who SHOULD go to AAA and who shouldn't. let's start TRYING to fix the ISSUE.

there has to be something in between what we have NOW and simply splitting the league and forming 2 leagues. i'll try to give some suggestions to try and get the ball rolling. let's NOT use the forum to argue over something that obviously is divided in opinion and confusing. let's use it to BRAINSTORM on ideas to continue and remain ONE united league and make the MAJORITY happy.

there are currently 9 teams in AAA and 18 teams in AA.....27 total.

let's start here:

RULE #1.....the AA team that wins the championship is automatically in AAA. the AAA team that is last in the division is automatically in AA. if there is a tie for the lowest team in AAA than we can create a tie-break system.

OPTION TO RULE #1.....if a team wins the AA championship and doesn't want to, (or they are not prepared to) move up then they 1) have to give the trophy and the championship to the second place team or whatever team agrees to move up, (with an asterick, of course). why should they be able to use that trophy to get sponsorship money and more fans? 2) they forfeit their all-star spots for that season. they usually get like 8 spots? that's like boasting about beating up little kids while being afraid to fight guys your own age. that will force the PLAYERS that don't want to move up to deal with the backlash and not JUST their gms who speak for them. 3)  have to pay a FINE to any AA team willing to step up in their place. the second place team should get the first choice. we can say that any team can only use this option ONE TIME for as long as they're in the league. if you win 2 championships then, you have NO OPTION but to FOLD or MOVE UP. we can make them have to decide their intentions 30 days after winning the championship so the team that steps up can start to prepare. we can say that the team stepping up HAS to have reached the playoffs. MAYBE we can make the team that wants to stay down pay the other teams league fee so the league doesn't have to pay for their decision. that will help make teams decide how "ready" they REALLY are for AAA. would you rather go AAA or pay $1500? this will ALSO help with "sandbagging". if no team wants to accept the extra money and move up OR if the team wanting to stay down doesn't choose either of these options then, SEE YA LATER and the league could go with RULE #3. there would be no reason to ARGUE and even discuss it in the the meeting. make it worth it to move UP and a HUGE penalty to stay DOWN! 

RULE #2.....the loser in the championship game in AA has the option to move up BUT maybe we can say that if they are UNDEFEATED in the AA regular season, (AND make the championship game) then they HAVE to move up with the champion. obviously they would BOTH be ready for AAA. if that's the case then the second lowest team in AAA would also HAVE to move down. that would eliminate the "sandbagging", as well. it will give some new blood to the AAA and allow the AAA teams that move down to recover and get their feet back under them.

NOTE: in the league meeting next year, we can say that NO AAA teams move down for 2013 BUT the WINNER of AA still has to move up in order to get the number back to 10 teams in AAA. 

RULE #3.....if a team in AAA folds then 1) the last place team in AAA has an option to stay and if they say no then 2) the next highest team in AA, (based on record) has to move up to fill that spot. IN THIS SCENARIO, THE AA CHAMPION WOULD HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO MOVE UP AS WELL.THERE IS NO WAY THE CHAMPION SHOULD STAY DOWN WHILE THE SECOND PLACE TEAM MOVES UP. we can then offer some type of a stipend to the second place AA team, (maybe $50 from each team) to help them offset the move OR we could maybe plug this amount into the league budget. that would be $1350 and it's something to get them started since they're being FORCED to move up. or we could eliminate their league fees for that year. all 27 teams should put something towards a LEAGUE issue. it's not just a AAA issue. if the AA teams want the equal vote then we should be a part of the AAA problems, too. AA decisions DO affect the AAA in this matter and we should do our part to rectify it or help compensate the solution.  if there is a tie for record then we can create a tie-break system. 

LET'S GIVE AN INCENTIVE OTHER THAN THE "BEST OF THE BEST", "PEER PRESSURE", "MY JUNK IS BIGGER THAN YOURS". not everyone uses football to calculate their manhood or their contribution to the world. money talks and not everyone wants to "beat their chest" and prove they're the best football players in the league. i'm sure there are guys that put the same competitive spin on other things in their life. it's not fair to expect EVERYONE to feel the same. just because we all PLAY football doesn't make us all FOOTBALL PLAYERS. i bowl once in awhile. i've even been in a bowling league BUT i'm NOT a BOWLER. i won't pay to bowl against a guy who averages 275 pins per game. it doesn't make me NOT competitive. BUT.....put me against a guy that bowls once every 3 months like i do and averages within 25 pins of what i average and i'll give him a run for his money. i even have a bowling trophy for my "division" and you best believe that i'm proud of it. 

feel free to pick these ideas apart, expand on them, say why they won't work or whatever but, let's START the process of trying to find a better solution to what we have now.

i haven't though of any ideas or ways to deal with the travel associated with AAA yet but, i'll work on that over the next couple days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.  

 

 

-- Edited by GORILLA20 on Monday 5th of March 2012 02:25:50 PM

-- Edited by GORILLA20 on Monday 5th of March 2012 02:27:04 PM

THANKS, SARGE FOR ANSWERING MOST OF MY QUESTIONS.

So many posts to reply to, so much to say...

First, thank you to those who replied, this was the point of my post. To start conversation, to get things said that most people were thinking, but all were afraid to say it. I don't know the right answer, but I do have my own opinions as do most of you.

First thing is first, every person here has a different opinion on what the league is and where it wants to go. There is no clear cut definition for the word/term "semi-pro". That's clear.

Secondly, Jaye, this isn't a tough guy competition, so don't compare it like it is. You offer great solutions, and I have some answers to your questions and I also do not have answers to some. I do see that most of your questions concern directly the status of you. I respect that you just want to play ball, and get better. But the strides the Cobras have made as football team in this league and as an organization is huge. You're headed in the right direction.

In an earlier post you mentioned all the good things the Desperados did, and yes, again they too are headed in the right direction. My personal opinion about what was "wrong" I guess you could say about the Desperados were the people on that team. Of course I'm only thinking of a few bad eggs, but heck, having guys play football with bandanas hanging out their pants, isn't really something I would call as great organization. Only a few bad eggs, but with the additions and the name change this year, I already know they are in the right direction. Don't take offense to this, and I hope Tyler and Co. don't either, but that is what was wrong with the Despos. I mean, playoff game at Jordan, I had guys threatened me because stuff got stolen out of your locker room, but it turned out to be one of your own teammates.

Jeb - Valid points, for a long time I didn't see where you were trying to head with what you wanted for this league. Maybe it was the way you explained it, maybe it was my own head just not getting it. I appreciate the post and I appreciate everything you said, just like I appreciate all the posts in this thread, remember, i started it for a reason. You did keep mentioning the word "fun". For the first time I'm not having fun running the Shock. Nothing's change with the Shock. . Maybe people will point at my personal life, but trust me, I don't think it's that. Why isn't it fun anymore? I've got my target on the whole league and that is why I started this thread.

Tom - The AAA is basically their own thing anyways you say, but we're not. We still have to exist with the AA teams and we still need the AA teams as much as the AA teams need the AAA. The conversation always comes up that it's travel, it's too many teams or too less of teams. The mission statement, blah blah blah...

What we need to figure out is what the common goal for the league is. There are 27 teams, what are the goals of those 27 teams. Win championships? Have fun? Endorse a league that maybe, just maybe can get the recognition of the Patti Labelle League. What do all of these teams want? Do we want to be the best in just Utah? Montana? Idaho? The Rocky Mountains? What does everyone want?

AGAIN, LET ME CAPS LOCK THIS PART SO IT'S UNDERSTOOD, I DO NOT HAVE THE SOLUTIONS. I CAN'T EVEN IDENTIFY ALL THE PROBLEMS, BUT WE AREN'T AS GRAVY AS EVERYONE THINKS WE ARE. EVERYONE'S HEADS IS IN DIFFERENT PLACES. THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN FOOTBALL LEAGUE IS SUPPOSE TO BE A PLACE WHERE WE ALL PLAY FOOTBALL, YET WE'VE SPLIT THE LEAGUE UP INTO AA/AAA DIVISIONS. IF IT'S JUST ABOUT PLAYING FOOTBALL AND HAVING FUN, WHY DID WE EVEN SPLIT THE LEAGUE? WHY HAVE DIFFERENT LEVEL OF COMPETITIONS?

We can play under the RMFL Moniker, because I believe basically, we all have the same common goals. However, there has to be a clear cut line between the AA and the AAA. Right now, there isn't. There has to be a timeline or deadline of some sorts for a AA team to remain AA team if there ultimate goal is to become the best product on the field and off. If you can't get it together in half a decade, when will you ever get it together?

Yes, the Shock at a point were a AA team. We had a choice to be AA or AAA in the first year of the split and I, me KYTO, chose to play AA.

My reasons: We wanted to earn our berth to AAA. We wanted to be the top 2 in the AA. We weren't nearly the organization we are today. In 2006, in our AA year we didn't have a home field, we played at Morgan and eventually at Granger, a deal we worked up halfway through the season. We didn't have matching helmets, and we didn't have decals. We didn't have away jerseys, and we didn't have a full set of home uniforms. We were not anywhere what was considered to be AAA material. Although on the field we may or may not have competed in AAA that year, that's why we were AA.

After our AA year, and we went AAA, you never saw one mismatched jersey, you never saw one mismatched helmet. We were in the TOP division in our league, and even though we won one game the following year, we knew what we represented.

i see too many people just looking at the quality of play and the level of competition, but it's much more than that. There are teams who follow the rules just to follow it, and there are teams who want to put in their best effort because they know their fellow member teams of the RMFL are putting in that effort.

I don't believe that the AA isn't necessary, I think that there needs to be a line drawn between AA and AAA because right now, there isn't. You all say there is, but there isn't.

We need to restructure the league mission, we need to restructure the whole definition of AA/AAA, we need clear cut definitions of what is what, where is where, and so on and so forth.

You guys are all right and wrong in your own ways, and I know that I am as well. A league split may be the worse thing that could happen to the AAA teams. But it could be the best. Who knows?

I just find it so hard that some teams who say they are working towards the AAA competition and organization level, be so afraid to say it. When we played in the AA, we had no intention to ever play AA more than one year. We wanted to be the best off the field and on the field. No excuses. We still lack the big names, the college recruits, yaddi yadda. Every name on our team made a name for themselves because they played in this league against the best of the best.

Off the field we want to put the best product we can on the field-- on the field we want to be the best and play the best. ALWAYS.

Some of you actually get what I'm posting, others just think I'm over my head and think that I'm making threats. It's not that, let's be honest if I didn't start this post, we'd have nothing to read anyways. This site would be dead, the excitement for the season would be dimmer than it already is.

It's like NO one cares. .

Who's playing preseason games? Did anyone know that the Shock are playing in a preseason game next Saturday? Is anyone gonna attend? The league know? Does the AA teams know that they can come check out the Vipers? Did the AAA teams know they can come check out the Shock in their FIRST EVER preseason game?

The whole vibe for this league, this season, everything is different. There's a reason for that... And I don't beleive it's because everything is fine and dandy and the league is so great from top to bottom.

It's because there are problems, there are issues. My suggestion was a league breakoff, and like I had mentioned to many others, it's not like we have to eliminate the AA altogether, everything just needs to be restructured.

And to have league meetings two times to discuss everything that goes on in a year? It's 2012, come on. And even though I've received crap for not attenting the league meeting this year, trust me, I was there, all Skyped in, texting, speakerphone, everything. It's possible.

Bring on the conversation.

Well Kyto, if nothing else, the issues of this league have certainly been brought to light with these posts. I think everyone who has posted on this tread have made some great points, and the first step to resolving the challenges the league faces are by the very debates on forums such as this message board. I do agree with you that the excitement for this season, or lack of it I should say, is very unsettling. I did know you guys play a pre-season game because I was looking at various team websites (at least those that have one) to see who was playing who in pre-season. I see the Vipers have quite an aggressive pre-season schedule. I'm sorry I have to point fingers at the administration again, but I believe they set the tempo of this league. They have the ability to generate excitement by unveiling exciting things that are upcoming, or the latest news about teams or events. They set the bar. We have a commissioner, but he is a ghost. We didn't hear from him all off-season, and we have only heard from him once reporting on the league meeting almost two months ago. I realize that he prefers to only communicate with the GM's, but even the president of the U.S holds press conferences from time to time. I only say that because he fancies himself and his administration to that of the U.S gov't. I 'm hearing that the league will have team write ups, but that's my point. I have to "hear". Nothing from the league itself to announce upcoming events, that might generate some enthusiasm. Jared N. was king of doing that. I've offered to do some write-ups, but as of today, I've had one person respond to my request for info, and that being Brad Thurber. Thanks Brad. I was going to put out several a week up until the start of the season, but with the season only one month away, I don't see that happening. I was at least willing to try to help this situation. And what happened to the monthly presidents pocket? It starts from the top. This league is only as good as it's leadership. The RMFL website, message board and the league leadership used to be alive and buzzing by this time of year. I think it is a shame that it doesn't have that fire anymore. I'm sure people will now come out of the wood work to lambaste me for criticizing the commissioner again. But it is what it is and getting mad at me isn't going to change that.

Harward- tell us then, what is this league? do you actually think that this league will become anything else other then it is right now?

 

Right now, I would say this is a pretty well ran league considered to most leagues. Teams are established in 4 or 5 states. That’s pretty impressive for an amateur football league. yes amateur, not "Semi-Pro."

 

No one said anything about 25 man rosters, or shortening the game. If some of you guys have aspirations for playing in a bigger better league then go walk on at a college. If you can’t make it on a college roster then you are obviously not good enough for true Semi-Pro football. And those of you who have played college and now are playing in this league probably were not quite good enough to take it further, and for the few of you who did play further are probably not at that level anymore to continue competing with the best in real Semi-pro and professional football. So then what???? That is when the RMFL comes into play. That is when this league allows people to continue to play the game they love.

 

Now there is nothing wrong with wanting to better this league. Change is continuous, and hopefully its usually for the better. So yes I agree, I hope this league continues to go in the right direction, but give me a break on this SEMI-PRO stuff! I mean seriously, how can one believe that this league will ever truly be seen like that???? We pay to play!

Kyto- What SEMI-PRO football might your team be playing in 2013???? Please do answer. But let me answer for you since most of the time it sounds like this:

-          My name is Kyto, let me first start out with my credentials, since that’s what I seem to do a lot. Yes I am a humble guy. I have been the best GM for 2 years. My team competes with the best year in and year out, I have many friends in this league who reach out to me and most of them would side with me on this issue. I have help teams with sponsors, and find fields. What have you done? But wait don’t answer that, because I am not finished talking about myself. Did I already say that my team may be playing real SEMI-PRO football next year? Yes that is a threat so take is seriously or you will be losing the best GM and best thing that has ever happened to this league. I can go on and on about myself but ill pretend to show some humility and give some else a shot so I can fire back and sound real smart and get more friends hahaha.

 

Semi-Pro football huh? Because the RMFL is just sucks, right? Ok im done.

Alright, this will be about the time your buddies start defending you, and you come on message board saying how tough you are because you leave a name. But you probably take a different approach on the reply, like maybe not replying at all, or maybe you will take the sarcastic approach, oooh maybe even the serious one and talk about your heart and passion for football and the league. Can’t wait to see it.

I see what you are saying. Some good points.  Thanks for the reply.

Isn't this one of the biggest, if not the biggest, league of its kind in the U.S.? (based on number of teams, players, and geography) That is something to be proud of.

We need more teams in the AAA- AGREE
We need to force AA teams into AAA- DISAGREE
There should be more incentive to move to AAA- AGREE (not just to move, but to stay in AAA)
We need to pile everyone into one league- DISAGREE
We need to seperate into different leagues- DISAGREE
The league needs to look semi-professional- AGREE

 

@ Anonymous,

I hate to be a stickler, but Kyto is right.  RMFL is "established" as in "Having been in existence for a long time and therefore generally accepted" in 3 states.  Elko has yet to play a game, and one team in Oregon but right on the Idaho border may TECHNICALLY count as being established in Oregon.  But the reality is that the footprint of the RMFL, with a few exceptions, is north Utah, south Idaho, and west Montana.   If you put a dot on a map (you can use Google maps if you'd like) you'll see that the teams of the RMFL are clustered for the most part in an area that cover only half of 3 states.  So while saying we are established in 4-5 states may not exactly be an exaggeration, it does seem embellished and somewhat misleading

-- Edited by N8loco58 on Thursday 8th of March 2012 10:59:34 AM

-- Edited by N8loco58 on Thursday 8th of March 2012 10:59:59 AM

Kyto,

You are wrong right now.  You did not start this discussion in a proactive manner.  You have good ideas, but you should try to apply them to THE RMFL, and not some other ten team league, we like to call the "AAA".  Your ideas in that league were good, I liked the sharing home site comment, attractive to vendors and sponsors.  Jay's Cobras, The Diggers, Matadors, etc.  would not be included in your ten team league.  Do you consider us to have our "acts together"? 

From one of your posts: "We can play under the RMFL Moniker, because I believe basically, we all have the same common goals. However, there has to be a clear cut line between the AA and the AAA. Right now, there isn't. There has to be a timeline or deadline of some sorts for a AA team to remain AA team if there ultimate goal is to become the best product on the field and off. If you can't get it together in half a decade, when will you ever get it together?" 

 Just because a AA team has it's act together and is a competent semi-professional organization, does not mean we have 22-30 athletes that can match those of the Shock, Rev, Rebels.  I am 6' 210lbs, a knowledgable and competent player, not of D1 caliber though.  Why should I not be able to play "competitive football" at a AA level right up until I win a AA championship.  Then follow the rules, move to AAA, and who knows, maybe we are middle of the road up there.  We live in a rural area, and small town.  We do not have the numbers of AAA caliber athletes we need to compete there.  Maybe we will one day, I bet that's the day we win the AA championship... and if we do, how long will we compete there.  Say we finish middle of the road, then last.  We are AA again?  Im no expert, veteran such as yourself, but my belief of the RMFL is that we are structured like this?

 

BOLD Section above:

My ultimate goal for the Diggers is not to win a AAA championship.  My ultimate goal is to provide a high level of AMATEUR football to our area.  I want to provide a game of football, random football fans can come watch. Not all of our family, not our friends, but true fans.  Right now, that is at the AA level, I would not charge one person $5 to come watch us play the Rev, Rebels, etc.  How can I market my team to my area, if physically our TEAM would be unable to compete.  I want people from my community to come from different small towns to our HUB Burley.  Watch our game, shop, eat all in our community.  All the while trying to accomplish our other goal, of winning a AA championship.  Then we will move up and try to become the best product on and off the field. 

Listen, there are a lot more guys that want to have fun, compete for a championship, and keep football a hobby than want to Be the best product on and off the field.

There's a BIG difference in the attitude with the way things are ran between the AAA and the AA.

It seems to me that DiggerCoachV attitude suggests that this is "good enough" when most of the AAA attitude suggests "keep moving forward". How long is this league gonna be just an AMATEUR league?

Why not progress and give the professionalism that would assist this league rather than just settle for "AMATEUR"

the purpose of this thread is to address the fact that the Top Teams of the league don't have a say in what goes?! All top AAA teams have to travel to a team that the league has struggled with for 2 years...... Progression will not happen if we continue to cater to the teams who do not want progress...

I know they have been playing there for 3 or 4 years. maybe someone from their team can give you the rest of the info. you desire oh powerful one. I guess that 3 or 4 years is not established enough.

I don't want to get involved...I don't want to get involved...I don't want to get involved...

&!#$%!@#$!@#^%&^$%^&*#!#$!!!!!!!

I'm involved...

A lot of GREAT points have been made thus far, and for those who are trying to BUILD up the league or at least QUESTION it's goal, I commend you. Those who simply are on here to ridicule the others...you have your place...enjoy it

I've been "Following" this league longer than most players have even known about it...does that strengthen my credentials???

Either way, I'm sure I'll make a post / write a column / or do something as this season progresses that will help everyone understand my point of view...

I've mentioned before and I'm sticking to it...THIS IS MY LAST YEAR FOLLOWING THE RMFL!!!

#seewhatididthere