Rocky Mountain Football League

Trevor Phillips enterprises · Member

2014 Hurry

thatguy · Veteran Member

Hate on: Generals and Stampede...use your geographic advantage as well as strong base of players and go AAA. Love on: All those teams that struggle each year but continue to play the game cuz they love it. That's what the RMFL is about. Hate on: THE BEST PLAYERS who apparently aren't good enough to play a really tough schedule of two games against THE BEST our league has to offer. Any team forced to come up is not THE BEST, and don't you AAA tough guys want to play vs THE BEST? Love on: Kyto the komical (see what i did there?) and his sidekick Hoop the hairless, without these guys the league would be....slightly less entertaining.

rosadoant · Veteran Member

Oh, finally a place to start to let issues out on the line and spark the debating.

So first, Boise staying AA, are you $@(#&*! kidding me? How can you justify staying AA when you blew out every opponent you played, with the exception of the Matadors? Hell you didn't even give up a touchdown until like week 9. You pitched 6 straight shut outs, hell you even beat two teams by more than 60. There is no way in hell that you deserve to stay AA. You are AAA bound, get used to it. On a side note, thank God you were able to pick up all those "extra" players so you could be "competitive."

Second: Brad, I have nothing to say on that point. I don't like the fact that you shred our secondary on a regular basis. But I do respect you and your skill. However, do know that our Linebackers are still chomping at the bit for our next meeting.

Third: Logan Stampede are coming back? Are you sure? Is this going to be another "Please let us play AA or we won't have a team" issue? I understand that if they are truly rebuilding, and all those former players that dispersed around Utah stay where they are, that Logan should be allowed to go AA. That is the purpose of the AA, build your team up so that you can compete in the AAA.

Fourth: The "bottom tier" teams in this league to catch a lot more crap than they deserve. Hell one of our "beloved" AAA players actually attended a game in Elko just to bash them on an open forum. No respect. But tell me, who is deserving more respect, the player who is willing to bash the lesser teams or the teams that go out week after week and put it all on the line time and time again, knowing that victory is a farther reach than they would like to believe. However, they continue to suit up week after week, and not once have they pulled the "week sauce" tactic the AAA plays every year of trying to play down in AA because they don't have enough teams. How about shutting your mouth and helping the younger teams build there programs to the higher level.

Fifth: Come on, everyone was aware that Kapernick was a fluke and Wilson actually has athletic ability. Don't be Haters.

Sixth: The season can't get here soon enough

-- Edited by rosadoant on Tuesday 3rd of December 2013 11:05:30 AM

Turkelton · Senior Member

Ok I will bite on this one.

HATE ON: If the Boise Generals are not laughed out of the league meeting for even asking to stay AA then it would be a travesty of epic proportions. Rumor has it they are claiming that they are "losing players". Would that be to the NFL? Or CFL? Just wondering. Sorry fellas I hope the league sees right through that one. Go up to AAA like the league rules require and then go back to AA if you can't handle the transition.

LOVE ON: The ballers who come back year after year and don't exactly produce like other teams. If it wasn't for you we wouldn't have grudge matches and competitive banter!

HATE ON: The teams who don't want to go AAA or fold and then come back a year or two later. It should be a minimum of three years for these teams. The league isn't blind to their tricks!!

Look forward to more discussion soon fellas!

As always TURK OUT!!!!

Stin-G1 · Veteran Member

Hatin we only get 2 reps at the league meetings, can we bump it up to 4 or 5...2 coaches and team capts. Can we get the league meeting on podcast? We all would like to hear the song and dance top teams give for not moving up

Lovin that a lot of my teammates are willing to go AAA even though our leadership feels different with good reason , (no disrespect) those reasons are posted on another thread....

S/O to the "top 2" AA teams aka closet 3A, you guys have a bullying complex or what make the jump and I'm pretty sure at least 2 more teams will follow, there's no way it should be this hard to get 10 3A teams. If we can't get at least 10 teams 3A then make it one league.

If the league happens to stay split, then the top half of 2A from the previous year should schedule a game with 3A team and the lower half schedule a cross conference game that will count toward overall standings but not divisional.

Maybe if we find away to give more of an incentive for 2A teams to move up. Just examples but how bout trying to televise 3A game of the week or help the 3A champion travel to play another league champion, or something.

As far as the stampede, I'm sure they're hopin we move up but would love to have them on our schedule......

COME ON MARCH MADNESS!!!!!

tom bennett · Veteran Member

Yeah, I'll jump in here. Word has it that most all of the Generals ex- Boise State players will no longer be with the team. That means Rhode, Acree ,Cam Hall and his brother Britt.Some of the other key defensive players such as Jocko and the Gunstreams are also rumored to be not returning. And I've also heard that Jerry Smith will not play any longer, but will run and coach the team. Keep in mind that this is just what I'm hearing, and I don't know this as a matter of fact. But if the Generals are indeed requesting to remain in AA, these rumors might have some validity to them. Otherwise, knowing Jerry, if he had the exact same team from last year, he would follow league protocol and move up. Maybe Jerry will get on here in the near future and clear up the rumor mill.
Tom Bennett

Turkelton · Senior Member

tom bennett wrote:
Yeah, I'll jump in here. Word has it that most all of the Generals ex- Boise State players will no longer be with the team. That means Rhode, Acree ,Cam Hall and his brother Britt.Some of the other key defensive players such as Jocko and the Gunstreams are also rumored to be not returning. And I've also heard that Jerry Smith will not play any longer, but will run and coach the team. Keep in mind that this is just what I'm hearing, and I don't know this as a matter of fact. But if the Generals are indeed requesting to remain in AA, these rumors might have some validity to them. Otherwise, knowing Jerry, if he had the exact same team from last year, he would follow league protocol and move up. Maybe Jerry will get on here in the near future and clear up the rumor mill.
Tom Bennett

I understand what you are saying Tom, but there still needs to be some type of safeguard by the league in these instances. I don't know how many times I have heard at the start of the season about players "retiring" or "not playing anymore" and then half way through the season or at the first sign of trouble half of those players are playing again. All it takes is a possible playoff push or for the coach to give someone a call to come back. Most of the time they are still on the roster anyway.

If the Generals are losing all those guys then it will hurt them. But I still think they need to move up and make it work or they move back the next season. OR if they are allowed to stay AA then they need to provide a list to the league of the guys that will not be playing with them who are causing them to stay AA and then those guys can't play for the Generals for that season.

Obviously this is just my opinion but something needs to be done, I'm sure I'm not the only person who has witnessed this scenario play out in our league with multiple teams. Sometimes I doesn't hurt any other teams or provide an unfair advantage but in this scenario it would.

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

... I'm Hooper's sidekick? Lol! Newbies-- The Follower?? and I made this board.

Knock knock...

dcurtis · Newbie

i can fill you in on the Stampede. Plan was to sell the team to Bracken. I want this team to be around for a long time. He was to keep it going. Hence why he attended the meeting last year instead of me. while i'm on a business trip i read on FB that he folded the team after the vote got changed. Needless to say I never got paid so I'm back in charge. I can't take blame for what happened last year. If you have a problem with it let your GM know to contact me. I've emailed them and asked if they have any questions about our return. i've only had 2 GM's respond back with questions. i would think there would have been more. I'm trying to get everyone's concerns so i can resolve them if there are any. I can only send so many emails with no responses. Most of our core players we had are staying with the Sting which is where everyone had to go to keep playing. From what i'm hearing they will be stacked, with about a roster of 80 after they had to cut players at their work out a few weeks ago.

We would like to make it back to AAA at some point. This year we should end up at about 30 players, however we dont have the numbers on the line we need to have to play AAA. We went through the should we jump and finally did. The problem is AAA talk trash on the AA teams but yet complain when now one wants to move up. "You guys suck and aren't good enough" yet turn around and say we need more teams in AAA why doesn't anyone want to move up?? Why would AA teams want to play up with guys that trashed on them?. But because of the talk, there is enough doubt placed in the AA mind set that maybe they really do suck, and if they move up they may really lose every game, which no one wants to do.

There really isnt that much difference. the jump isnt that bad. I know, we went thorugh it. The difference is AAA teams tend to have more depth at line a few more skill players. We've played AA teams that have a guy that could start on any AAA team. problem is, he is the only player like that on the AA team. A AAA team will have 5 or 6 of those guys.

I wish we could get USU players. every year I met with Gary Anderson to try and have him sway players to play with us in the spring. I will try agian with Coach Wells. The issue is most teams would fund their way or let them play for free. They way i run my team is everyone pays a player fee. there is not some that pay and some that dont. if their fees aren't in, they dont play until they are. I'm sure i could get a few more guys if i paid their way but it isnt fair to the guy that pays his fees, attends every practice but isnt good enough to see the field. I dont run my team like that. no one gets a free ride. I've only had Pete Sheilds play for me who played up at USU. he has been the only ex- Aggie play that saw decent time with USU.

If anyone has any questions feel free to emial me. I'll answer any questions any time.

Dave

rosadoant · Veteran Member

I personally have no issue with the Stampede coming back in as AA, but only if the players that played AAA for them stay where they are. I know this makes it more burdensome but I want the AA to be competitive in its skill level. And also I don't think the Generals have the right to stay AA. The rules are simple, win the AA championship and move up. If you get rocked for a year in AAA you can move back down. But I also know that victory makes players return like no other force. Last year our roster swelled from 30 to 75 after a decent showing at a preseason game. Three weeks later, after a home loss to start the season we were back down to 30. It never takes very much to get players to agree to return if they know they can win, it is more of an issue if they have to fight for them.

The Point is, Stampede, yes go AA if you are truly a different team than the AAA team was. Generals, go AAA, of you get rocked come back AA next year. I freely admit that my opinion about your team is skewed because of the acts you pulled last year complaining about not being able to pick up enough AAA players from a folded team to be "competitive in the AA" but this is my opinion, one that is shared by a majority of the league.

Once again, I will state it again, the goal of all AA teams should be to play competitively in the AAA league. I know our team currently holds a spot close to the bottom of the AA but you can trust me on the fact that as soon as we believe we can compete in the AAA, we will be there.

RUMOR · Member

No matter who has intentions of playing up or down at the end of the day its still football. Last year there was 5 AAA teams... 5! Thats a huge issue, and no one seems to be interested in a one league from AAA.... The meeting always gets dramam before it happens and then it sputters out.. At the end of the meeting youre gonna have someone unhappy. You cant please everyone, and will always have people talking trash about AA or AAA. The nature of the beast

Jess Peterson · Senior Member

Stin-G1 wrote:
Hatin we only get 2 reps at the league meetings, can we bump it up to 4 or 5...2 coaches and team capts. Can we get the league meeting on podcast? We all would like to hear the song and dance top teams give for not moving up

Last year we changed it that teams could have more than 2 but it was $25 per person. The conference and meeting rooms that we get cost more when we have more people. We could give every team 5 slots but it would cost the league at least $500 more and league fees would go up.

There are talks of having the podcast at the league meetings but it wouldn't be live. As of now. But we need some sponsors to help us run this year.

James Eyre · Veteran Member

I think the Stampede should be AA. With that being said I will address just a couple things that Dave said as he was somewhat implying that we are stacked and that we have his core players which is very untrue. We only have 5 players that are with us this year that played on the Stampede AAA team two years ago. I'm 100% sure that the Stampede will have more than that, Ours are Drew Augustus DE, Greg Christiansen RB(Played O Line for the Stampede), Brennen Alleman WR, Dale Nicholas S(Played D End and LB for them), and Logan Hull K. I'm not calling out Dave or the Stampede but I also have to address untruths about us. We also do not have 80 players. We currently are down to about 60 or so.

-- Edited by James Eyre on Thursday 5th of December 2013 04:54:56 PM

Trevor Phillips enterprises · Member

I'm glad I got things started....I'm proud of myself

First I was hoping we would get some other love/hate points, not just mine.

I could talk all day just like you guys can... but to the facts. Every league has top teams and bottom teams, so unless you tie EVERY game you're going to have losing teams.Accept it

AA needs AAA....AAA needs AA..... Just like the Broncos and Chiefs need the Raiders and Chargers. you don't see the Patriots players or ownership publicly bad mouthing the Jaguars saying they dont belong, kick em out... they just play... Point is the AA teams should want to be AAA and AAA should want AA teams to join up......So entice, invite, make feel welcome, don't belittle and bit*h

A 5 team league sucks, this isn't intramural flag football.. NOT ONE PERSON should like a 5 team league.

Certain "TOP AA" teams don't want to move up because they don't want to be beat up on or whatever, but why not lets flip the situation and imagine the bottom AA teams refusing to play on the same grounds,

Say Gem State, Davis, Elko, Glacier Etc... want to start an A division or leave the league entirely. Because why would Gem state want to spend money to play the Generals, WHO WOULD, ITS NOT CHEAP.....really do you like that scoreboard???... How would any team get better playing against teams they blow out the water or blow them out the water. You will get bored and stagnant and players will quit after a season or 2 because you're going no where like that.

We should come together at the meeting and make a 10 or 12 team AAA, its only the proper thing to do for the league as a whole and that will be the best way to survive as a whole for decades ahead.

First the Sting player count- 60-80- whatever.....there are 20+ teams who would sacrifice thousands of footballs to be in that situation, IN DECEMBER, come on man, are you done recruiting???.. (that team should have no money issues).
Didn't the Sting go on and on at the meeting last year how they will be AAA next year championship or not, how they have loads of players and are going to build a grand stadium in Brigham for the team....... 60 flipping players IN DECEMBER, on top of making the playoffs in your first year should make you WANT to move up, but of course not, Sting will complain about the Generals but return to do exactly what they did, come back just to beat up on lesser teams. But hey its better for them and their needs

Stampede, weren't they a AAA team, they whined and left, and now want to be AA a year later......So we let them be AA and what, still complain about AAA numbers??? Or what if they beat Davis 70-0?
NO you want back in the league, AFTER YOUR HOSTAGE ATTEMPT, NO NO NO... go AAA one year then petition to come down, be men accept what you did was childish..... Didn't Great falls spend a year getting smacked and spent Thousands I'm sure in the process but took it and came back prouder but they had the right to move down....like men..

Generals..... uh if the Stealth lose a few players could they move down too....Same principal right??

Why don't I hear the Muddy ducky's asking to retreat to AA? Maybe they want the league to be successful

Sting, Stampede, Generals, Matadors and one more Idaho (who will be men and choose to come on their own accord). that makes ten teams, add 2 or 3 (GF and both Billings maybe) from Montana and boom problem solved.

I should be in charge, I even amaze myself... Go ahead and commence this great banter..... I could sure use a Cherry Pepsi

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Do AAA people really bash AA teams? Or do some players bash some AA teams? Or do AA teams just keep saying that AAA bash AA? I'm confused.

Let's state some facts:

The Generals are a AAA team. I don't care if they lost all of those players. IT WAS MADE VERY CLEAR DURING THE 1 HOUR ARGUMENT ABOUT THE PLAYER MOVEMENT THAT THOSE PLAYERS WERE GOING TO LEAVE AFTER A YEAR! Now all of a sudden they can't compete AAA because they lost players? Whaaat? All of those at the league meeting, the Generals were made fully aware of the consequences of taking all of those Spartan players and the risk of those guys leaving. So do I feel sorry for them? Nope. It was made clear to them before they dusted the AA division.

60 people? Why aren't the STING AAA? I haven't had 60 guys... EVER. And i'm pretty sure they said they just needed a year in the league...

One year later...

The same teams in the middle of the league are the issue. This is not an issue of AA/AAA. THE REAL AAA teams know they should be AAA. And the real AA teams knows they should be AA.

Do you guys not see it's the few teams who have to argue that they are AA and not AAA. You guys always make it an issue of AAA belittling AA teams.

Thats not the issue. It's the teams who have to argue that they aren't READY to be AAA. Whaaat? Are you serious? You don't have enough DEPTH? You don't have enough TALENT?

What?

If your team is in the middle and you have to try and prove that you aren't ready for AAA, you're part of the problem. If you aren't ready now, how many days, weeks, months, years is it going to take you to be ready? Teams lose players every year. Things change every year. Get over it.

I look at all the GMs and Owners of the teams around the league and there are very few who've been around since the merger. YOU ARE HELD RESPONSIBLE. If you are clogging up the system, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

If your team every competed in AAA or was good enough to be AAA at one point and you MOVE down, you didn't try to get better. You just settled. You're part of the problem.

If your team has been around since 2005 and you're still in AA, you're part of the problem. Yes, Idaho Matadors I'm talking to you. It takes you 8 years? To what? For what? Hey new management, my name is Kyto, I'm outspoke, get use to it.

Generals, you've won AA, so how does it help the league ANY if you stay down in AA?

History lesson--

We had a system.

2004 - Merger happened. THE RMFL became a reality. Idaho, Montana, Utah finally one huge league. Parity top to bottom.

2005- The league expands to over 20 teams. The top teams could not compete with the bottoms teams.

2006 - AA/AAA split happens. The RMFL has a successful year because all teams can compete fairly top to bottom in both leagues.

2007 - AA/AAA is a success because again the bottom AAA teams want to get better to stay AAA and the top AA teams want to get better to be in AAA.

2008 - The system gets broken. The league lets down a AAA Lionz to go AA and they win... Uh oh.

2009- The system is broken even more, the league allows the Stampede to stay down after winning the AA title.

2010- The Stampede is still an elite AA team who could compete and later said they shouldn't have stayed down but the Gladiators win the AA ship.

2011 - The system is still effed up and we allow the Gladiators to ONCE stay down again.

2012 - The Bitterroot Blaze (2007 AA Champions) win the AA again and then fold.

2013 - The Generals recruit 10 AAA Spartan players and win the AA and are already wanting to stay down in 2014.

DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM HERE?

You guys make the argument to be about AAA teams versus AA teams. It's the middle teams. We all know who the AAA teams are. We all know who the TRUE AA teams are.

If you clog the system with those middle teams, the AAA teams are hurt because you never try to expand the AAA league. If you clog the middle teams in AA, you never allow the TRUE AA teams to compete and get better.

They system is broken.

Set a standard RMFL. MAKE A PLAN. 2-3 YEAR PLAN. NO MATTER WHAT WE STICK TO THAT PLAN. NO MORE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE LIONZ TO MOVE DOWN (2008) SO THEY CAN FOLD. NO MORE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE STAMPEDE TO STAY DOWN A YEAR AND THEN FOLD. NO MORE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE GLADIATORS. NO MORE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE BLAZE.

We cater to teams that leave. To GMs who LEAVE.

GMs need to be held accountable. Speak up AA GMs. THE TRUE AA GMs, how can you advance your product if there are teams who won't allow you to? Don't blame the AAA teams... We don't play you, we don't beat up on you year after year and say that we're not ready to make that jump.

The problem:

The teams who could be AAA and be successful within 2-3 years but decide not to. Those are the teams messing up the system.

It has nothing to with AAA/AA.

And for those who think one big league is the answer: Why waste one year to make one league just to split a year later? So we can already prove who is those last 4-6 teams in AAA after the 5 already in AAA? Ummmmm...

Boom. I'm back.

rosadoant · Veteran Member

Bravo Kyto

James Eyre · Veteran Member

First off we "the Sting" have never said we were against moving up. If you read on another thread somewhere what I said is that we would not move up and be the 6th team in an all Utah AAA because that looks like a rec league no matter what talent is there. If you guys can get all the teams that finished ahead of us, Generals, Matadors, Gladiators, Bulldawgs, then the Sting would move up into a 10 team AAA that spans the RMFL wither we are ready or not. Last year we said that we were starting our team with the goal of being AAA at some point and that we would consider going AAA even if we didn't win the championship. We had over 60 players last year and were bounced in the first round by the 4th place team from Idaho. I would like to see all the middle teams move up. If you throw in the Billings teams, the Anarchy, the Stampede, and maybe even the Mustangs then the AAA would be an awesome league to play in and teams would want to get in on it. It is not about being scared or even being ready for us. It is about the landscape. Start lobbying some of the other teams that are above us and like I said. If you can get 10 or more AAA teams we would be glad to be one. But we won't be the 6th team and we won't move up if the teams above us don't. All I ask is don't throw us in with the teams who have dominated AA and just don't want to move up because when was the last time a team that couldn't get out of the first round of the AA playoffs even in this discussion.

jebharrison · Veteran Member

The system is broken.. Kyto is right. uh-oh.

If you want to FIX the system thats easy....

Last year at the meeting we said the Top 4 AA will go up. Generals, Matadors, Bulldawgs and Gladiators. Then we need to STICK to that. Put those guys in AAA like we agreed and let the AA teams figure themselves out. If the Sting want to go up let them.

This is a year when we could finally do what the rule says and enforce them. Otherwise we will have another year of a broken system.

Rudy16 · Newbie

Logan Stampede Players that have gone to the Sting.

^Brad Thurber: 2010 AA MVP

^Daniel Augustus: Started for the Stampede from 2008-2011 with 2 years AAA exp

^Drew Augustus: Excellent player Started for Stampede 2008-2011 2 years AAA 2009 sack leader.

^Cole Williams: With the Stampede 2008-2011. 2013 sting Allstar

^Greg Christiansen: Stampede 2008-2011 stater with some all star appearances in there.

^ Brennan Alleman: Stampede 2009-2011 top receiver every year, and the kid is amazing at returning punts.

^Dale Nicholas: Ex Marine. The kid wont back down from anyone. He will start D End Backer or Safety. Wherever he wants really.

^Logan Hull: without Logan Stampede dont make it to the ship in 09. Has a leg from hell. Lots of teammates have always asked him why he doesn't go walk on at Utah State. Also holds the strongest leg from the All star game in 09.

^Mike Norton: Stampede 2010-2012 Also a great assett, also a 2013 Sting All Star.

As for the Stampede wanting the Sting to go up most of your top players played with the Stampede top players. One there is no way with the distance that we wouldn't play pre season or Reg Season. Hopefully we can start a fun "Classy" Rivalry.

Turkelton · Senior Member

It has always been my opinion that the most consistent and successful teams should move up. The Generals and Matadors should be a given. Both teams are built top to bottom to not only make the jump but actually win games in AAA. There is even a strong argument to be made for the Gladiators to move up as well.

I agree with Kyto that the system is shot to hell and we have no one to blame but ourselves for letting it get to this point. If you win you move up, there should be no excuses. If you lose, petition to go back to AA simple as that.

I also agree with Coach Eyre, there really is no rationale for giving them a hard time. Do they have 60 players? Yep. Could most of their players hang in AAA? Yup. Would their players be willing to make the jump? Absolutely.

But, last year even though they went 7-1, did they have the depth to make the jump? Not in my opinion. Their depth was a big reason why they lost their first round game to the Bulldawgs. It wasn't the only reason, but in the second half they were absolutely drained. I don't agree with telling them they have to move up because the have ex-AAA players (which is half of the upper tier teams in this league) or because they have 60 players. Their roster size didn't win them a championship but I believe they are close. In discussions with the Eyre brothers I understand that they are trying to build a brand with their team. It doesn't make sense for them to ruin that brand by moving up too soon just because people want another AAA team.

Kyto made the point its the teams that are lolly gagging around that need to make the jump. If you have consistently been at the top time to go up. Simple as that. It is hard to be consistent in this league because of all the circumstances that surround our players, so if you are being consistent then clearly you could handle the jump up. Just my opinion.

Turkelton · Senior Member

It has always been my opinion that the most consistent and successful teams should move up. The Generals and Matadors should be a given. Both teams are built top to bottom to not only make the jump but actually win games in AAA. There is even a strong argument to be made for the Gladiators to move up as well.

I agree with Kyto that the system is shot to hell and we have no one to blame but ourselves for letting it get to this point. If you win you move up, there should be no excuses. If you lose, petition to go back to AA simple as that.

I also agree with Coach Eyre, there really is no rationale for giving them a hard time. Do they have 60 players? Yep. Could most of their players hang in AAA? Yup. Would their players be willing to make the jump? Absolutely.

But, last year even though they went 7-1, did they have the depth to make the jump? Not in my opinion. Their depth was a big reason why they lost their first round game to the Bulldawgs. It wasn't the only reason, but in the second half they were absolutely drained. I don't agree with telling them they have to move up because the have ex-AAA players (which is half of the upper tier teams in this league) or because they have 60 players. Their roster size didn't win them a championship but I believe they are close. In discussions with the Eyre brothers I understand that they are trying to build a brand with their team. It doesn't make sense for them to ruin that brand by moving up too soon just because people want another AAA team.

Kyto made the point its the teams that are lolly gagging around that need to make the jump. If you have consistently been at the top time to go up. Simple as that. It is hard to be consistent in this league because of all the circumstances that surround our players, so if you are being consistent then clearly you could handle the jump up. Just my opinion.

rosadoant · Veteran Member

It should be a simple fix, but it isn't. Looking at playoff pictures, season records, and past performance it should be easy to divide the league into AA and AAA. First the 5 AAA teams stay put, the Stampede join them. Followed by the Matadors and the given Generals. That covers your 8. Now you have teams that should be put in, such as the Gladiators. And fringe teams like the Bulldawgs, Bullets and maybe the Sting, although I would characterize these teams as border line. So given the Gladiators travel options, if they are forced to go back to the AAA, it would only be fair if they had another AAA in Montana.

Ultimately it comes down to what teams want, what the GMs want. No one wants to go out week after week and lose. We all want to be competitive. I understand teams want to stay on the winning side of things, a winning product is a lot easier to market than a struggling one. This however leads to two options, teams move up on there own accord or are forced to move up.

The League needs to make a stand, set a rule, and stick to it. No exceptions. But it should be amended to avoid encountering the problems we seem to hit over and over again. Top two teams in AA move up to the AAA and stay there for two years. If at that time they still maintain a bottom level record they can petition to move down. This ensures the growth of the AAA and ultimately the strength of the RMFL

Twa Deuce · Newbie

I have a question, are the team fees for AAA the same as team fees for AA? If we want to incentivize AA teams to move up, how about we increase the team fees for AA and lower them for AAA teams. That could encourage AA teams to move up. Just a thought.

rosadoant · Veteran Member

Increasing the fees is a monumentally bad idea. Basically you are punishing those teams that are not good enough yet, and therefore have no business trying to join the AAA. I understand the effort to try and make the AAA more appealing but fees aren't the problem. Say you have a new team, still struggling to locate and sign on sponsors, they have there fee in hand but you make the AA higher and the AAA fee lower you lure them into the AAA. Then they get blown out game after game because they are a team that shouldn't have been in the AAA in the first place. Next thing you know, they are no longer a team.

Raising the AA fee to try and force teams into the AAA is counterproductive. Yes some teams may move into AAA for that incentive, but does that benefit AAA by lower the competition? Its the same argument for one division, AAA teams may scream for it, but it doesn't benefit anyone. It lowers the competition for AAA teams and makes the competition too high for the AA teams.

They best option to fix both the AAA and AA leagues is to set rules and stick to them. I propose that the top two teams, minimum move up to the AAA. Then they are required to stay for two years. This allows a team to try and grow into a more effective unit at a higher level, instead of just giving up on a year so than can come back down to the AA. This allows the AAA to grow and gives the AA a clearer goal to strive towards.

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Ummm are you guys talking about player fees or league fees?

Player fees are based on each team. I have always charged $100 for a player to play if they are returning and $125 for a new player.

As far as LEAGUE fees, the AAA paid less than the AA last year.

So ummm... yeah..

thatguy · Veteran Member

The other issue is geographical location and the inability to recruit enough top caliber athletes to compete in AAA.

Turk? WTF are u talking about when u say depth was why the Sting lost to the Bulldawgs....do you remember how many guys they took to Utah? 23ish...

The Sting and Stampede, Generals and Matadors should move up. Then next tier AA teams, schedule one or two AS A teams instead of the bottom tier AA teams.

Turkelton · Senior Member

thatguy wrote:
The other issue is geographical location and the inability to recruit enough top caliber athletes to compete in AAA.
Turk? WTF are u talking about when u say depth was why the Sting lost to the Bulldawgs....do you remember how many guys they took to Utah? 23ish...
The Sting and Stampede, Generals and Matadors should move up. Then next tier AA teams, schedule one or two AS A teams instead of the bottom tier AA teams.

Yes that is what I'm saying, depth and a couple costly turnovers. It isn't any secret that they were controlling that game until the second half, then their defense was gassed and gave up a ton of yards and points to the Bulldawgs. Don't get it twisted, I gave your team credit when it was due. They showed nothing but heart and got it done to get the W even though I feel the Sting were the better team. But all that matters is the wins and losses.

So let me get this straight...You think the Sting should move up? Even though they went 7-1, and then lost in the first round of the playoffs to a lower seeded team who beat them with "23ish" players. Oh not to mention on their home field where they were dominant. Yet you don't include the team that beat them "aka Bulldawgs" in that list? Where is the logic in that argument? There is none. Then you threw the Matadors name out there who finished underneath the Bulldawgs in the Idaho Divison. (I think they should move up too, I'm just making a point) It should be the teams that made it furthest in the playoffs. Period. Just my opinion.

You don't say anything about the Gladiators? Who also won their division, made it to the championship game, and probably would have won if they weren't playing against the Boise St. Broncos. Nor do you mention Billings, or Archo, both who were bounced in the first round. Were both statistically almost identical to the Sting. Both of which scored more points than the Sting. Yet there is no discussion about them? Cases could be made for all of these teams moving up. Yet you think a team that got beat in the first round, and another who didn't even field a team last year should be in AAA? I have always stated that I thought the "Generals, Matadors, Gladiators, and Bulldawgs should go up." They are the teams that are best suited to compete from top to bottom. At the very least, the top three teams in the playoffs and take out the Bulldawgs.

I know you are making an argument for geographical purposes. But I don't agree with that being taken into account. I know travel is a sensitive issue for the AAA teams, so I'm not even touching on that subject. But I don't think that should be an issue when choosing a team to move up from AA to AAA. Everyone has to travel in AA so it shouldn't matter. You have to raise the funds for travel in the first place, so go out and put in the foot work or find the sponsors to raise that much more money to make up the difference. Or don't play at all.

-- Edited by Turkelton on Sunday 8th of December 2013 11:44:15 PM

Jess Peterson · Senior Member

I am going to throw it out there to piss people off.... All the teams that made the AA playoffs should move up.

thatguy · Veteran Member

Move as many teams up as you want...the final 4 in AAA playoffs would still be Stealth, Shock, Revolution, and Rebels. In our recreational league where every season may be your last, why would any team not want the opportunity to realistically compete for a championship? How is that good for "the league" to lose players who cannot compete at that level, instead of accept the fact that there are 4 teams with a talent level top to bottom that is head and shoulders above the rest? SMH , this is a rec league where a vast mojority never had collegiate level talent. We will never make money as a league, individual team, or players. Therefore you cannot force, perr pressure, or beg teams to play vs. teams and players that will dominate them.

thatguy · Veteran Member

Admitting and accepting that fact makes someone no less of a man than refusing to step in the ring with Mike Tyson in the 80s or octagon vs Cain Valasquez

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

thatguy wrote:
Move as many teams up as you want...the final 4 in AAA playoffs would still be Stealth, Shock, Revolution, and Rebels. In our recreational league where every season may be your last, why would any team not want the opportunity to realistically compete for a championship? How is that good for "the league" to lose players who cannot compete at that level, instead of accept the fact that there are 4 teams with a talent level top to bottom that is head and shoulders above the rest? SMH , this is a rec league where a vast mojority never had collegiate level talent. We will never make money as a league, individual team, or players. Therefore you cannot force, perr pressure, or beg teams to play vs. teams and players that will dominate them.

Ummm and the top 4/5 teams in the AA will always be

The Matadors, Generals, Gladiators, and probably Bulldawgs or Sting.

How does it make it fair to the other teams?

Why don't those 4-6 teams (Billings can go in that mix too) start a 6 team AA and let the other teams play for "A" title?

Matadors formerly AAA team, Generals (AA Champion), Gladiators (former AAA team and former 2 time AA champs), Bulldawgs (AA Semifinalist)..etc etc..

I'm sure someone will get offended that I didn't mention their team, but I'm just trying to make a point.

How is that fair to Elko? Gem State? Uintah? Diggers?

How is it not reasonable for teams who have won the championship or been close or been in the championship in the AA to move up and let the other teams try to get better.

You're arguing that teams who are good, shouldn't try to get as good as the better teams. They should beat on the same teams over and over. What if the Utah Shock hadn't stayed up after 2007? (History lesson: We went 1-8 in our FIRST AAA season) What if our argument was that we would never be what the Rhino Raiders were...(History lesson: Justin Oswald ran for 235+ yards on us)

You don't strive to get to be the best? You strive to be the best of the lower tier teams? How does that advance the league?

I can name over a dozen players who were either MVP, ALL-RMFL, or RMFL All-Stars that I've lost over the years, but we still come out and try to compete. With the exception of the Mudducks, we've never won a AAA Championship, does that mean we should move down because we can't beat those other three teams?

I'm trying to understand your logic.

Also, Turk, I get it, if the Sting moves up, your playing time decreases even more than the little that you did get.

Big picture folks, take a look at it.

Turkelton · Senior Member

KytoKhouang wrote:
thatguy wrote:
Move as many teams up as you want...the final 4 in AAA playoffs would still be Stealth, Shock, Revolution, and Rebels. In our recreational league where every season may be your last, why would any team not want the opportunity to realistically compete for a championship? How is that good for "the league" to lose players who cannot compete at that level, instead of accept the fact that there are 4 teams with a talent level top to bottom that is head and shoulders above the rest? SMH , this is a rec league where a vast mojority never had collegiate level talent. We will never make money as a league, individual team, or players. Therefore you cannot force, perr pressure, or beg teams to play vs. teams and players that will dominate them.

Ummm and the top 4/5 teams in the AA will always be

The Matadors, Generals, Gladiators, and probably Bulldawgs or Sting.

How does it make it fair to the other teams?

Why don't those 4-6 teams (Billings can go in that mix too) start a 6 team AA and let the other teams play for "A" title?

Matadors formerly AAA team, Generals (AA Champion), Gladiators (former AAA team and former 2 time AA champs), Bulldawgs (AA Semifinalist)..etc etc..

I'm sure someone will get offended that I didn't mention their team, but I'm just trying to make a point.

How is that fair to Elko? Gem State? Uintah? Diggers?

How is it not reasonable for teams who have won the championship or been close or been in the championship in the AA to move up and let the other teams try to get better.

You're arguing that teams who are good, shouldn't try to get as good as the better teams. They should beat on the same teams over and over. What if the Utah Shock hadn't stayed up after 2007? (History lesson: We went 1-8 in our FIRST AAA season) What if our argument was that we would never be what the Rhino Raiders were...(History lesson: Justin Oswald ran for 235+ yards on us)
You don't strive to get to be the best? You strive to be the best of the lower tier teams? How does that advance the league?

I can name over a dozen players who were either MVP, ALL-RMFL, or RMFL All-Stars that I've lost over the years, but we still come out and try to compete. With the exception of the Mudducks, we've never won a AAA Championship, does that mean we should move down because we can't beat those other three teams?

I'm trying to understand your logic.

Also, Turk, I get it, if the Sting moves up, your playing time decreases even more than the little that you did get.

Big picture folks, take a look at it.

Kyto,

It's unfortunate that you took my post in that direction. My playing time is irrelevant to this discussion. I was actually agreeing with you that the future of the league is important. I was only arguing the point that people shouldn't be calling out the Sting management like they are scared because a case could be made for a number of AA teams before them. I joined this league to get on the field again. And to play the game I love. Never once did I say I was an all star. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall ever disrespecting you. I will chalk that one up to online ranting for the fun of it. In the end thanks for reminding me that you are awesome and I'm not. I will be sure to remember that! haha

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Kyto,
It's unfortunate that you took my post in that direction. My playing time is irrelevant to this discussion. I was actually agreeing with you that the future of the league is important. I was only arguing the point that people shouldn't be calling out the Sting management like they are scared because a case could be made for a number of AA teams before them. I joined this league to get on the field again. And to play the game I love. Never once did I say I was an all star. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall ever disrespecting you. I will chalk that one up to online ranting for the fun of it. In the end thanks for reminding me that you are awesome and I'm not. I will be sure to remember that! haha

Take it for what it's worth. In the same paragraph you said you agreed with me, you also stated that people shouldn't be calling out the Sting. Well, why not? So the Sting should stay in AA because they didn't win the ship?

You say you agree with me, but in the same essence you disagree with me. Would we be where we are if we didn't let the Idaho Matadors a few years back stay in AA after losing 1,2 games? It is what it is. I'm still trying to just GET it.

People say teams in Salt Lake City have a better pull of people because of our population. But it's not like the TOP 4 teams are pulling new talent by the bunches. Everyone is worried they can't compete with the Top 4 teams every year but every year it's not like it's the same guys who are dominating. We have to go out and get players too.

The 2009 Championship REV team is not the same guys on the REV now. The Dixie guys are the same guys who played when they went back to back. Hell, the starting QB for the champion Stealth last year was different from the year before that!

We've had to go out and get guys too! And the thing is, if you do get guys who are legit good, because truly it's not like guys on my team are GREAT players, we're average to below average players who keep on playing with each other against the best competition TO GET BETTER. How are AA teams going to get better if they get guys who are GOOD but then realize they aren't even in the best division of their league. Why would that player want stay with that team?

We keep trying to make excuses to stay down or that we need time. But guess what, I've seen it, I'm completely over it.

Dear Buckie, if you start a team, I won't vote you in unless you petition to go AAA. You've had your success at AA, you know what it takes to have a AAA organization and team. Sorry, I don't feel bad for ya. I like ya, but hey, it is what it is.

Same goes for Jason Stucki, same goes for Dave Curtis.

IF YOUVE BEEN IN THE LEAGUE AND RAN A TEAM IN AAA, there is no need for you to rebuild. Why'd ya leave in the first place? Well, the Shock always blow it every year, should I fold up shop and return to AA in two years?

For the past 10 years we've wanted to expand and expand and expand. Well, guess what, that hasn't worked. Expansion leads to more teams folding or more players jumping from one team to the next.

Let's establish our league. Let's have OWNERS who want to do this and BE here. Let's have owners to WANT be the best by PLAYING the best.

And let's let those in the small market areas who truly CANT compete at the highest level, lets let them be able to compete.

Move everyone up who was in the AA playoffs.

Call that the AAA. Everyone else be in the A.

15 teams in the AAA. NO AA LEAGUE, JUST A AA CHAMPIONSHIP. 11 in the A.

Top 6 teams in the AAA play for the AAA championship.

Next 6 teams play for the AA championship.

Next 3 sit out and decide if they stay up or move down.

11 teams in the A.

Top 4 teams play in the playoffs.

Top Two Teams Move Up.

Last 9 GET BETTER or we establish a plan to make you better.

EVERYONE-- OR CLOSE TO EVERYONE has something to play for. But at least that way, those MIDDLE teams don't get a chance to destroy the lower tier teams who want to just be a middle team. They play the tougher teams so they know where they need to be, but they still can play for their AA championship.

AFter a year we reevaluate. Or we can truly justify our seperation of AAA/AA.

Is this the solution? I don't know, probably not. But it's better than arguing of why teams should STAY down.

Turkelton · Senior Member

One point that should be made for discussion purposes is that where do all the AAA mergers come into play in this argument? There should be equal blame placed on the AA teams that are ready to move up but also the AAA teams that merged or folded. There has been a few teams to move down from AAA and request to stay down but there were a few quality AAA teams that folded that could have made for a competitive AAA division today.

For example; the Muddogs and Davis Vipers faced off in the AA championship, the Muddogs won and they both moved up to AAA. The Muddogs struggled in AAA and then all the good players from the Vipers merged with them forming the Shock. Then the Vipers couldn't handle AAA and had to move down to AA. The AAA lost a decent team at that time. Then you have teams like the Rockets, Heat, Bears, and Wolverines just to name a few. All of these teams merged with each other until they all formed three All-Star AAA teams in the Salt Lake area (aka the Shock, Rev, and Stealth). The league lost some really good AAA teams. Those three teams are essentially the old AAA.

Now I understand there are circumstances that can cause these types of mergers to include finances, so by no means am I completely blaming the AAA teams for anything, but it is important to point out that it did create a significant talent gap between the two levels of the RMFL. I still completely agree there are AA teams that are ready for the jump u to AAA, and that is the situation that we are currently facing. St. George has done an excellent job of building an organization that can compete year in and out at that level. But for most teams in this league with an even bigger area it is hard to get that many good players on one team.

As far as size of the area of teams to recruit in. Lets look at the Utah division specifically, the Stampede (if they are AA this year) the Sting, Vipers, and Cobras all pretty much recruit against each other. There are only a few teams with smaller areas then them, Elko, Vernal, and probably Arco and Galletin Valley. Most of the other teams are in bigger areas to include Glacier. Just some other things to think about.

Turkelton · Senior Member

KytoKhouang wrote:
Kyto,
It's unfortunate that you took my post in that direction. My playing time is irrelevant to this discussion. I was actually agreeing with you that the future of the league is important. I was only arguing the point that people shouldn't be calling out the Sting management like they are scared because a case could be made for a number of AA teams before them. I joined this league to get on the field again. And to play the game I love. Never once did I say I was an all star. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall ever disrespecting you. I will chalk that one up to online ranting for the fun of it. In the end thanks for reminding me that you are awesome and I'm not. I will be sure to remember that! haha
Take it for what it's worth. In the same paragraph you said you agreed with me, you also stated that people shouldn't be calling out the Sting. Well, why not? So the Sting should stay in AA because they didn't win the ship?
You say you agree with me, but in the same essence you disagree with me. Would we be where we are if we didn't let the Idaho Matadors a few years back stay in AA after losing 1,2 games? It is what it is. I'm still trying to just GET it.
People say teams in Salt Lake City have a better pull of people because of our population. But it's not like the TOP 4 teams are pulling new talent by the bunches. Everyone is worried they can't compete with the Top 4 teams every year but every year it's not like it's the same guys who are dominating. We have to go out and get players too.
The 2009 Championship REV team is not the same guys on the REV now. The Dixie guys are the same guys who played when they went back to back. Hell, the starting QB for the champion Stealth last year was different from the year before that!
We've had to go out and get guys too! And the thing is, if you do get guys who are legit good, because truly it's not like guys on my team are GREAT players, we're average to below average players who keep on playing with each other against the best competition TO GET BETTER. How are AA teams going to get better if they get guys who are GOOD but then realize they aren't even in the best division of their league. Why would that player want stay with that team?
We keep trying to make excuses to stay down or that we need time. But guess what, I've seen it, I'm completely over it.
Dear Buckie, if you start a team, I won't vote you in unless you petition to go AAA. You've had your success at AA, you know what it takes to have a AAA organization and team. Sorry, I don't feel bad for ya. I like ya, but hey, it is what it is.
Same goes for Jason Stucki, same goes for Dave Curtis.
IF YOUVE BEEN IN THE LEAGUE AND RAN A TEAM IN AAA, there is no need for you to rebuild. Why'd ya leave in the first place? Well, the Shock always blow it every year, should I fold up shop and return to AA in two years?
For the past 10 years we've wanted to expand and expand and expand. Well, guess what, that hasn't worked. Expansion leads to more teams folding or more players jumping from one team to the next.
Let's establish our league. Let's have OWNERS who want to do this and BE here. Let's have owners to WANT be the best by PLAYING the best.
And let's let those in the small market areas who truly CANT compete at the highest level, lets let them be able to compete.
Move everyone up who was in the AA playoffs.
Call that the AAA. Everyone else be in the A.

15 teams in the AAA. NO AA LEAGUE, JUST A AA CHAMPIONSHIP. 11 in the A.
Top 6 teams in the AAA play for the AAA championship.
Next 6 teams play for the AA championship.
Next 3 sit out and decide if they stay up or move down.

11 teams in the A.
Top 4 teams play in the playoffs.
Top Two Teams Move Up.
Last 9 GET BETTER or we establish a plan to make you better.

EVERYONE-- OR CLOSE TO EVERYONE has something to play for. But at least that way, those MIDDLE teams don't get a chance to destroy the lower tier teams who want to just be a middle team. They play the tougher teams so they know where they need to be, but they still can play for their AA championship.

AFter a year we reevaluate. Or we can truly justify our seperation of AAA/AA.

Is this the solution? I don't know, probably not. But it's better than arguing of why teams should STAY down.

Quality way to look at it. I think that is the understanding, there is no perfect solution, there has been so many factors to get us to this point.

GORILLA20 · Senior Member

(SORRY GENTLEMEN.....I'M NOT YELLING OR TRYING TO GET NOTICED. I JUST REALIZED I TYPED THIS IN ALL CAPS AND AM TOO LAZY TO GO BACK AND TYPE IT NORMAL. I USE CAPS LOCK FOR MY MACROS AT WORK. I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE). WHY ARE WE EVEN DISCUSSING THIS? IT'S ACTUALLY PRETTY SIMPLE AND EASY.....IN THE LEAGUE MEETING LAST YEAR, I WAS ALL FOR THE AA HAVING A CHOICE AND NOT HAVING ONE LEAGUE. I WAS ALL ABOUT LEAGUE INTEGRITY. ***NEWSFLASH TO AA GMS / PLAYERS / COACHES***.....IF YOU DON'T WANT TO MOVE UP TO AAA AND FOLLOW THE "RULES" THEN JUST LOSE FOOTBALL GAMES. I'M SURE THERE WERE TEAMS LAST YEAR THAT WANTED TO "WIN" THE AA CHAMPIONSHIP AND WOULD HAVE BEEN WILLING TO MOVE UP TO AAA. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU STACK YOUR ROSTER TO WIN AA GAMES AND THEN THE AAA CALIBER GUYS THAT GOT YOU THERE (BUT ONLY WANTED THE RING AND DIDN'T WANT TO TRAVEL) RIDE OFF INTO THE SUNSET. YOU CAN ONLY SKATE "THE SYSTEM" FOR ONE YEAR. THAT'S HOW THE BYLAWS ARE FORMATTED. YOU CAN DOMINATE AA FOR ONLY ONE YEAR AND THEN YOU SHOULD BE GONE TO FACE BETTER COMPETITION IN THE AAA. THE UTAH COBRAS ARE BUILDING A ROSTER ON A GROUP OF CORE GUYS THAT WILL BE AROUND FOR THE LONG HAUL AND WE ARE IMPROVING EACH YEAR (AS A CORE GROUP) UNTIL WE ARE READY FOR AAA. IF WE END UP WINNING AA THEN OBVIOUSLY OUR "CORE GUYS" ARE READY AND I WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM MOVING UP. THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE WOULD WIN AAA OR BE DOMINANT IN AAA BUT THOSE ARE THE RULES. AA TEAMS SHOULD NOT BE OUT LOOKING FOR "RINGERS" TO JUST STACK WINS AND GET A RING AND THEN WHEN THE "ONE HIT WONDERS" ALL LEAVE, THEY'RE COMPLAINING BECAUSE THEY ARE STUCK WITH AA TALENT BUT EXPECTED TO GO AAA. IT'S KILLING THE LEAGUE AND FOR ONCE I AM ON THE SIDE OF THE AAA GUYS. WE, (AS AA TEAMS) DON' T HAVE TO STRIVE TO BE THE "BEST OF THE BEST" OR WANT TO PLAY THE "BEST OF THE BEST".....NOT ALL TEAMS ARE IN THE LEAGUE FOR THAT REASON AND IT SHOULD BE A CHOICE.....HOWEVER, IF YOU GET LUCKY ENOUGH TO WIN THE AA CHAMPIONSHIP THEN MOVE YOUR ASS UP AND FOLLOW THE DAMN RULES. WE AGREED THAT THE TOP AA TEAMS WOULD MOVE TO AAA TO FILL OUT AN 8 OR 9 TEAM AAA DIVISION. EVERY DAMN TEAM HEARD THIS AND IT WAS VOTED ON AND PUT INTO LAW. SO WHEN WE STARTED THE SEASON WE ALL WENT IN KNOWING THE SITUATION....JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER YEAR. THIS SHOULD BE A "DONE DEAL" AND I HOPE NOBODY GOES EASY ON THE GUYS WITH EXCUSES. WE'VE HEARD REASONS ALL OFF-SEASON WHY TEAMS CAN'T GO AAA WHEN THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN THINKING OF WAYS TO MAKE AAA A REALITY. I REMEMBER IN 2009 WHEN WE LOST IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME TO THE STAMPEDE. THE BULLDAWGS, (WHO ALSO LOST TO THE STAMPEDE IN THE SEMIS). BOTH THE DESPERADOS AND THE BULLDAWGS AND HAD LOSING SEASONS WHILE THE STAMPEDE STAYED DOWN IN AA AND I BELIEVE ALMOST WENT UNDEFEATED 2 YEARS IN A ROW. SERIOUSLY? I BELIEVE THE GLADIATORS DID THE SAME THING IN 2010 / 2011 AND SPENT THE ENTIRE SECOND SEASON BOASTING ABOUT HOW DOMINANT THEY WERE IN AA. "COME ON, MAN!" (IN CRIS CARTER VOICE). I CAN'T BELIEVE I JUST TOOK THE SIDE OF THE AAA GUYS IN REGARDS TO NEEDING TO DO OUR PART FOR THIS LEAGUE AND HELPING IT GROW. WE BOAST ABOUT OUR EXPANSION INTO 4 STATES BUT ONLY HAVE OUR "BEST OF THE BEST" IN ONE STATE? LET'S FIX IT.

-- Edited by GORILLA20 on Wednesday 11th of December 2013 03:52:17 PM

thatguy · Veteran Member

Kyto, I suggested something similar at the end of last year. The top AA teams schedule AAA teams instead of bottom AA teams, and at tge end of the year based on how teams played against different levels of competition put every team into 3 playoffs for an A, AA, and AAA championship. I think allowing all teams a playoff chance would improve through experience each team in the league.

Turkelton · Senior Member

GORILLA20 wrote:
(SORRY GENTLEMEN.....I'M NOT YELLING OR TRYING TO GET NOTICED. I JUST REALIZED I TYPED THIS IN ALL CAPS AND AM TOO LAZY TO GO BACK AND TYPE IT NORMAL. I USE CAPS LOCK FOR MY MACROS AT WORK. I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE). WHY ARE WE EVEN DISCUSSING THIS? IT'S ACTUALLY PRETTY SIMPLE AND EASY.....IN THE LEAGUE MEETING LAST YEAR, I WAS ALL FOR THE AA HAVING A CHOICE AND NOT HAVING ONE LEAGUE. I WAS ALL ABOUT LEAGUE INTEGRITY. ***NEWSFLASH TO AA GMS / PLAYERS / COACHES***.....IF YOU DON'T WANT TO MOVE UP TO AAA AND FOLLOW THE "RULES" THEN JUST LOSE FOOTBALL GAMES. I'M SURE THERE WERE TEAMS LAST YEAR THAT WANTED TO "WIN" THE AA CHAMPIONSHIP AND WOULD HAVE BEEN WILLING TO MOVE UP TO AAA. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU STACK YOUR ROSTER TO WIN AA GAMES AND THEN THE AAA CALIBER GUYS THAT GOT YOU THERE (BUT ONLY WANTED THE RING AND DIDN'T WANT TO TRAVEL) RIDE OFF INTO THE SUNSET. YOU CAN ONLY SKATE "THE SYSTEM" FOR ONE YEAR. THAT'S HOW THE BYLAWS ARE FORMATTED. YOU CAN DOMINATE AA FOR ONLY ONE YEAR AND THEN YOU SHOULD BE GONE TO FACE BETTER COMPETITION IN THE AAA. THE UTAH COBRAS ARE BUILDING A ROSTER ON A GROUP OF CORE GUYS THAT WILL BE AROUND FOR THE LONG HAUL AND WE ARE IMPROVING EACH YEAR (AS A CORE GROUP) UNTIL WE ARE READY FOR AAA. IF WE END UP WINNING AA THEN OBVIOUSLY OUR "CORE GUYS" ARE READY AND I WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM MOVING UP. THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE WOULD WIN AAA OR BE DOMINANT IN AAA BUT THOSE ARE THE RULES. AA TEAMS SHOULD NOT BE OUT LOOKING FOR "RINGERS" TO JUST STACK WINS AND GET A RING AND THEN WHEN THE "ONE HIT WONDERS" ALL LEAVE, THEY'RE COMPLAINING BECAUSE THEY ARE STUCK WITH AA TALENT BUT EXPECTED TO GO AAA. IT'S KILLING THE LEAGUE AND FOR ONCE I AM ON THE SIDE OF THE AAA GUYS. WE, (AS AA TEAMS) DON' T HAVE TO STRIVE TO BE THE "BEST OF THE BEST" OR WANT TO PLAY THE "BEST OF THE BEST".....NOT ALL TEAMS ARE IN THE LEAGUE FOR THAT REASON AND IT SHOULD BE A CHOICE.....HOWEVER, IF YOU GET LUCKY ENOUGH TO WIN THE AA CHAMPIONSHIP THEN MOVE YOUR ASS UP AND FOLLOW THE DAMN RULES. WE AGREED THAT THE TOP AA TEAMS WOULD MOVE TO AAA TO FILL OUT AN 8 OR 9 TEAM AAA DIVISION. EVERY DAMN TEAM HEARD THIS AND IT WAS VOTED ON AND PUT INTO LAW. SO WHEN WE STARTED THE SEASON WE ALL WENT IN KNOWING THE SITUATION....JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER YEAR. THIS SHOULD BE A "DONE DEAL" AND I HOPE NOBODY GOES EASY ON THE GUYS WITH EXCUSES. WE'VE HEARD REASONS ALL OFF-SEASON WHY TEAMS CAN'T GO AAA WHEN THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN THINKING OF WAYS TO MAKE AAA A REALITY. I REMEMBER IN 2009 WHEN WE LOST IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME TO THE STAMPEDE. THE BULLDAWGS, (WHO ALSO LOST TO THE STAMPEDE IN THE SEMIS). BOTH THE DESPERADOS AND THE BULLDAWGS AND HAD LOSING SEASONS WHILE THE STAMPEDE STAYED DOWN IN AA AND I BELIEVE ALMOST WENT UNDEFEATED 2 YEARS IN A ROW. SERIOUSLY? I BELIEVE THE GLADIATORS DID THE SAME THING IN 2010 / 2011 AND SPENT THE ENTIRE SECOND SEASON BOASTING ABOUT HOW DOMINANT THEY WERE IN AA. "COME ON, MAN!" (IN CRIS CARTER VOICE). I CAN'T BELIEVE I JUST TOOK THE SIDE OF THE AAA GUYS IN REGARDS TO NEEDING TO DO OUR PART FOR THIS LEAGUE AND HELPING IT GROW. WE BOAST ABOUT OUR EXPANSION INTO 4 STATES BUT ONLY HAVE OUR "BEST OF THE BEST" IN ONE STATE? LET'S FIX IT.

-- Edited by GORILLA20 on Wednesday 11th of December 2013 03:52:17 PM

Jaye, in your opinion, who should be moving up this coming season?

mix3423 · Member

I want to see all the Generals players come back and play AAA, that would be entertaining for the league as a whole, some great games would be on the docket!

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Turkelton wrote:
One point that should be made for discussion purposes is that where do all the AAA mergers come into play in this argument? There should be equal blame placed on the AA teams that are ready to move up but also the AAA teams that merged or folded. There has been a few teams to move down from AAA and request to stay down but there were a few quality AAA teams that folded that could have made for a competitive AAA division today.
For example; the Muddogs and Davis Vipers faced off in the AA championship, the Muddogs won and they both moved up to AAA. The Muddogs struggled in AAA and then all the good players from the Vipers merged with them forming the Shock. Then the Vipers couldn't handle AAA and had to move down to AA. The AAA lost a decent team at that time. Then you have teams like the Rockets, Heat, Bears, and Wolverines just to name a few. All of these teams merged with each other until they all formed three All-Star AAA teams in the Salt Lake area (aka the Shock, Rev, and Stealth). The league lost some really good AAA teams. Those three teams are essentially the old AAA.
Now I understand there are circumstances that can cause these types of mergers to include finances, so by no means am I completely blaming the AAA teams for anything, but it is important to point out that it did create a significant talent gap between the two levels of the RMFL. I still completely agree there are AA teams that are ready for the jump u to AAA, and that is the situation that we are currently facing. St. George has done an excellent job of building an organization that can compete year in and out at that level. But for most teams in this league with an even bigger area it is hard to get that many good players on one team.
As far as size of the area of teams to recruit in. Lets look at the Utah division specifically, the Stampede (if they are AA this year) the Sting, Vipers, and Cobras all pretty much recruit against each other. There are only a few teams with smaller areas then them, Elko, Vernal, and probably Arco and Galletin Valley. Most of the other teams are in bigger areas to include Glacier. Just some other things to think about.

You're wrong. And you didn't do your homework.

The Muddogs won the AA and moved up while the Vipers stayed in AA in 2007.

We struggled in AAA because we lost Kjar and because we had 4 people who stayed healthy all season.

Technically-- the Vipers shouldn't have made the jump to AAA in 2008 because they didn't finish in the Top 2. And we took 6 Vipers in 2008 to finish the regular season 1st. That's not a merger.

As far as the Wolverines, Bears, Hear, they all started somewhere. Whether it was the Rhinos, Wildcats or Warriors, it's been the same core group on all these teams.

So Vipers losing players to not be AAA, technically-- when they stayed down, they didn't qualify for AAA in 2008. So you're wrong.

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

By your reasoning-- the Sting is a merger with the Stampede.

Viper players who came to the Shock in 2008:

Chuck Hall
Terry Smothers
JJ Moncada
Bryce Kennington
Matt Christensen
Kenny McWilliams

Wolverines? Ex Utah Blitz.
Heat? Utah Warriors
Seminoles/Nemesis/Despos

You're saying the AAA is to blame partly because they merged??

Who merged?

So did the Kamas Valley Muddogs merge with the Wolverines because they took 4 of us?

What kind of asinine reasoning is that?

Turkelton · Senior Member

KytoKhouang wrote:
Turkelton wrote:
One point that should be made for discussion purposes is that where do all the AAA mergers come into play in this argument? There should be equal blame placed on the AA teams that are ready to move up but also the AAA teams that merged or folded. There has been a few teams to move down from AAA and request to stay down but there were a few quality AAA teams that folded that could have made for a competitive AAA division today.
For example; the Muddogs and Davis Vipers faced off in the AA championship, the Muddogs won and they both moved up to AAA. The Muddogs struggled in AAA and then all the good players from the Vipers merged with them forming the Shock. Then the Vipers couldn't handle AAA and had to move down to AA. The AAA lost a decent team at that time. Then you have teams like the Rockets, Heat, Bears, and Wolverines just to name a few. All of these teams merged with each other until they all formed three All-Star AAA teams in the Salt Lake area (aka the Shock, Rev, and Stealth). The league lost some really good AAA teams. Those three teams are essentially the old AAA.
Now I understand there are circumstances that can cause these types of mergers to include finances, so by no means am I completely blaming the AAA teams for anything, but it is important to point out that it did create a significant talent gap between the two levels of the RMFL. I still completely agree there are AA teams that are ready for the jump u to AAA, and that is the situation that we are currently facing. St. George has done an excellent job of building an organization that can compete year in and out at that level. But for most teams in this league with an even bigger area it is hard to get that many good players on one team.
As far as size of the area of teams to recruit in. Lets look at the Utah division specifically, the Stampede (if they are AA this year) the Sting, Vipers, and Cobras all pretty much recruit against each other. There are only a few teams with smaller areas then them, Elko, Vernal, and probably Arco and Galletin Valley. Most of the other teams are in bigger areas to include Glacier. Just some other things to think about.
You're wrong. And you didn't do your homework.
The Muddogs won the AA and moved up while the Vipers stayed in AA in 2007.
We struggled in AAA because we lost Kjar and because we had 4 people who stayed healthy all season.
Technically-- the Vipers shouldn't have made the jump to AAA in 2008 because they didn't finish in the Top 2. And we took 6 Vipers in 2008 to finish the regular season 1st. That's not a merger.
As far as the Wolverines, Bears, Hear, they all started somewhere. Whether it was the Rhinos, Wildcats or Warriors, it's been the same core group on all these teams.
So Vipers losing players to not be AAA, technically-- when they stayed down, they didn't qualify for AAA in 2008. So you're wrong.

I understand that the Vipers moved up in 2008. I just didn't specify that they moved up a year later but they did the next. I wasn't completely blaming anyone. Just as I said in my post we are where we are in the league. A lot of factors have played into that. But it's no secret that the three Salt Lake teams at one point were all star teams of the old AAA. Players may have come and gone to this point but it's true.

thatguy · Veteran Member

Stack the schedule so that teams at their current level, it truly can vary so much year to year, have the best opportunity to compete and get better. Examples: Elko vs Davis, oilers, lancers, guardians, diggers, cobras, Bulldawgs, mustangs. A next tier team like Cobras would play vs Sting, oilers, diggers, stampede, mustangs, Vikings, mud ducks, shock. Sting would play similar schedule with Bulldawgs and maybe a Boise team matadors, generals). Shock vs mudducks, rebels, rev, stealth, sting, logan, generals, bulldawgs. rebels vs shock, rev, mudducks, stealth, sting, stampede, bulldawgs, cobras. Virtually take the mid to top AA teams and trade games vs bottom four AA teams for a top tier AA Utah or Montana team and AAA teams to help fill out schedules. Maybe we are stuck too much on hard lines of alignment and classifications to see what is really best for "the league" which is a thousand or so guys who still like to play football. So why not play a schedule to determine post season classifications based on head to head outcomes. I'd have to believe that all off our Saturdays are worth enough that nobody sandbags. Again don't plan before the season on a specific number of teams in each playoff bracket, but actually evaluate the seasons results and determine if there are still 4 AAA teams way better ie. didn't lose a game to anyone outside of each other...or maybe a couple top tier AA teams show they can beat all AA teams and a couple AAA teAms. Maybe the mustangs, vipers, Vikings, have a strong year and are AA instead of A playoff team as they would have finished last year. Just spitballing here...

thatguy · Veteran Member

I think this way we can try to satisfy competitive differences as well as geographic needs. Montana always presents a challenge to scheduling neutrals they grow their league and maybe travel to eastern ID to fill out a schedule could still work into rankings and playoff scenarios.

LangBang · Veteran Member

Love on: The RMFL pre-season banter

Hate on: Not having the perfect solution

Love on: The fact we have a select few that truly care what the league looks like as a product. Yes, I back anything Kyto says (excluding "FTR")

Hate on: That at 67 years old, Levine will be chasing me in practice come February

Love on: I share the same itch to keep playing this game

Hate on: I never have good stat games against the Shock

Tis' the season gentlemen!

James Eyre · Veteran Member

thatguy, So what you are saying is that we would all play random schedules with no real divisions? Or maybe we make divisions of teams that are more equal to each other. And maybe we could have players vote on a poll and place the teams in a top whatever amount of teams. And maybe we could have the coaches also vote and make a poll also. And then at the end of the year we make some kind of ranking system that takes into account the two polls and uses some other data like strength of schedule and quality wins and we put it all in a computer and it spits out another list. And then we use that to place teams in post season play. I like it. Totally original and sounds like it would work awesome!

thatguy · Veteran Member

I think you're mocking me and are making things more complicated tahn they would be. maybe even eluding to BCS I.think.the.records would.clearly show separation in talent levels, and possibly automatically take into.account how well teams are traveling, often a sign of actual commitment level and overall strength of an organization.

thatguy · Veteran Member

The schedules i.posted as possible examples were neither random or purely geographically biased. They would try to pair teams based on previous years standings where they played 5-6 games vs equal competition and a couple vs better team, always trying to play more games against better competition than down vs struggling teams

James Eyre · Veteran Member

I'm not mocking you. I actually like your idea in some ways. I just thought it was funny because when I was reading it, it made me think of collage football for some reason. Talking on here does zero to effect the outcome at the league meeting. There are only a handful of GM's that get on here. You need to start lobbying the gm's to get votes because when it comes down to it that is what makes things happen in this league. If someone really wants to try for something they should be contacting the other gm's now. We only have one month and if everyone goes in thinking they will make changes debating it in a 4 or 5 hour meeting then it will end up the same as last year. The Generals will fold when they are not allowed back to AA. The AAA will end up with 5 or 6 teams again. The Idaho teams will say they only want to play each other and Rex will abstain.

thatguy · Veteran Member

Just wrote you a lengthy message that my poopy phone screwed up.delivering. Id like to.talk with you more Mr. Eyre. I am Ryan VerWey of Bulldawgs. you can email me at drverwey@gm ail.com or call, 208-308-3279. We can talk about this more or how much you hate me for my second hal in the playoff game I.still chalk up.as damn near miraculous and/or through.divine intervention. I'm not that good at QB yet...