Rocky Mountain Football League

Nighthawk · Veteran Member

RE: 2014 Hurry

GORILLA20 · Senior Member

IN RESPONSE TO TURK'S QUESTION:

I honestly think that we don’t need any more AAA teams from Utah, (maybe the Stampede if they get in the league because they left as a AAA team). In order for the league to grow, expand and be marketable we have to grow and expand. It’s hard to sell a product that is only based in one geographical location. Let’s stop talking about why we (AS A LEAGUE) cannot do things and let’s think of ways that we CAN do things. We talk about teams in Montana and how hard it is to schedule them yet we deal with the Rebels and somehow YEAR AFTER YEAR they make it work. Let’s take our league money (IF WE HAVE TO) and think of ways that we can remove the handcuffs from situations like this. The AAA got a price break last year for whatever reason. Add that money back onto their fees and give it to the team(s) in Montana to help with travel. I think maybe the Rebels should get some of that as well. I’m not saying that’s the solution or the ONLY solution but let’s think outside the box. AAA teams can’t ask for teams to jump up from AA and add additional costs to their season unless there is a benefit. It’s more travel, more competition and more money to go AAA. SIMPLE and PLAIN. So rather than beg teams to jump up and bash the ones that won’t, let’s put something in place to fix the problem. We shouldn’t have to alter the bylaws and / or functions of the league to fit the needs of ANY team (UNLESS IT HELPS THE WHOLE LEAGUE). ***NEWSFLASH*** Someone in Montana will ALWAYS win the DIVISION and have the possibility of being AAA. Teams should be altering their way of doing things to be a part of this league. !!!!!PERIOD!!!!!

In 2014, we decided to have the top AA teams move up to make a 9 or 10 team AAA. With that said, we have to look at the IDAHO Division first. When looking at moving teams UP to AAA, we shouldn’t just look at the Generals and Matadors. Take this for what it’s worth. I think the top 4 teams in the Idaho Division should move up. That would make a 9 team league, (10 if the Stampede get in the league as a AAA team). That would leave 5 teams in Idaho, 5 teams in Utah and 5 teams in Montana in AA. AA can keep the same Divisional format and AAA gets what they need in regards to being full. ***NOTE*** This would give the Montana teams a chance to prepare for 2015 when I think the top 2 teams in Montana should be FORCED to enter the AAA ranks. The bottom 2 AAA teams from 2014 should move back down to AA and the top 2 Montana teams should take those 2 spots along with the top 2 AA teams (2 teams OUT of AAA and 4 teams IN). That would give the AAA 12 teams in 2015. Each year we should have bottom AAA team from each division move down and ALL 3 division winners from AA move up. If there is a team that isn't a division winner in AA but makes the AA Championship game than that team should move up as well (this team would be the ONLY team that could lobby to stay down). If we do that for a few years than we will have a more competitive AAA and it will be bigger than the AA in regards to teams. That guarantees that AAA is gaining one more team than they are losing each year.

Anyway, in the Idaho Division, this is what I noticed:

Every loss for the top 4 teams in Idaho was on the road. I think this may indicate lack of personnel on road games rather than lack of talent on the other top two teams in the Idaho Division. The Generals beat everyone (home and away) so they are the exception. For example, the Bulldawgs (6-2) lost to the Generals on the road and the Anarchy on the road. The Anarchy (6-2) lost to the Matadors on the road and the Generals at home. The Matadors (6-2) lost to the Anarchy on the road and the Generals on the road. They should all move up and form an Idaho Division. With this in place, the Idaho teams would only have 2 more road trips than they had last year and some of those games were almost as far as a trip to Utah. You can put the Rebels in the Idaho Division (ONLY to make it 5 teams) and then have the Shock, REVolution, Ducks, Stealth and Stampede/Sting in the Utah Division that would be 5 teams. I think it would be competitive.

AAA would look like this (everyone would play everyone ONCE):
We could take the furthest games for teams to travel in AAA and use them for the Stars & Stripes Tournament and make it ONLY AAA teams?

IDAHO
Rebels
Generals
Matadors
Bulldawgs
Anarchy

UTAH
Stealth
REVolution
Shock
Ducks
Stampede

The AA division would look like this: (USING THE TEAMS WE HAVE IN THE LEAGUE RIGHT NOW)

UTAH
Sting
Cobras
Oilers
Vipers
Warriors

IDAHO
Mustangs
Vikings
Diggers
Guardians
Lancers

MONTANA
Gladiators
Bullets
Phoenix
Snow Devils
Knights

Jess Peterson · Senior Member

GORILLA20 wrote:
IN RESPONSE TO TURK'S QUESTION:

The AAA got a price break last year for whatever reason.

They voted to do away with trophies (except a championship trophy) and championship money. This was about $400 per team which brought their fees down from $1400 to $1000.

GORILLA20 · Senior Member

THEN MAKE ALL TEAMS PITCH IN OR SOMETHING. WE HAVE TO START THINKING AS A LEAGUE. I WAS JUST USING THAT AS AN EXAMPLE. I FORGET THAT THERE WERE ONLY 5 TEAMS IN AAA, LAST YEAR. MAYBE THERE ARE SOME OTHER WAYS TO MINIMIZE MONEY. I THINK IF WE USE THE S&S TOURNAMENT FOR ALL AAA GAMES, IT WOULD AT LEAST HELP THEM FROM HAVING TO SECURE A HOME FIELD FOR THAT WEEK. LET'S JUST FIGURE OUT WAYS THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP BENDING RULES FOR 1 OR 2 TEAMS. IF THEY NEED HELP THEN LET'S HELP.....AS A LEAGUE. *****SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS, AGAIN*****

jebharrison · Veteran Member

Come on Jaye....

Your plan doesn't fix the current problem it extends it... In your plan you keep the Gladiators in AA? After being in AA championship 3 out of last 4 years?

You say move up all the Idaho 6-2 teams... But your team was 6-2 and the Sting were 7-1 but you don't want them moved up??

The Cobras and Billings actually held the tie breaker over Arco.

Billing actually beat the Gladiators and finished 7-1 but you dont want them moved up.

You put the ST.GEORGE UTAH Rebels in the IDAHO Division? Huh?

Here is what we do to FIX the issue.. Make rules and stick with them. This could be the 1st year we actually do it. And it pretty much works.

Move Generals, Matadors, Gladiators and Bulldawgs to AAA like we said we would last year...

That would give us a 9 team AAA league that we said we would have to have.

A sample travel schedule for a Utah team would most likely include 2 Utah road games, 1 Idaho road game and 1 Montana road game. Gladiators would most likely have 2 Utah trips, 2 Idaho trips. Have the Rebels and the Gladiators play in the S and S. You could easily make that work. It would be pretty fair.

As far a competition.. IF the Generals bring back that team from last year. I would say they are a favorite to WIN the AAA. Gladiators were damn good. Matadors were the only team to almost beat the Generals and the Bulldawgs beat them.

Thurber should just enforce the rule we made last year. End of story. problem solved.

If Billings wants up let them.

If the Stampede want in then we vote on it. I dont think we should have the Sting and the Stampede in the same league. One needs to go up.

AA would have to figure it out from there. Some thing would need to be done with Montana maybe only having 2-3 teams in AA.

But fix the AAA first. We were very clear last year at the meeting that the top 4 AA would move up.

Just like you said, " quit bending the rules" We need to stick with the rules for once. Not make an exception for one team like we have so many times in the past.

If we deviate from what we said last year then we are bending the rules.

-- Edited by jebharrison on Thursday 12th of December 2013 03:54:18 PM

James Eyre · Veteran Member

Just curious why the Sting and Stampede shouldn't be in the same league? That would be like us saying that Arco and the Mustangs can't be in the same league. Or the Generals and the Matadors. Or the Bulldawgs and the Diggers. Not trying to argue just curious as what the reason for that would be.

jebharrison · Veteran Member

Those teams were always separate teams. But when Arco was formed.. taking a few guys from the Mustangs, they were in a different league. When the Diggers started they took some Bulldawgs but they were in a different league. The Sting disbanded Logan and now Logan wants back in. One of those teams should move up..

James Eyre · Veteran Member

Again the Sting did not disband the Stampede. The Stampede were already split into two teams. One was AA and the other was AAA. We bought the rights to the AA team and then the AAA team folded when they were not allowed back to AA. We only had 1 player from their AAA team until after they folded the AAA team. Then we added the others which were posted earlier in this thread. Our team only has 15 players on our roster this year that ever played with the Stampede. Only 4 of them played when the Stampede won the AA championship. We do not recruit out of Logan. We are a totally separate team.

GORILLA20 · Senior Member

my point wasnt about the Cobras not moving up. Its not about the Gladiators staying down. It was about teams OUTSIDE of Utah being in AAA. IF 4 teams from Idaho all move up then it makes less travel for the Idaho teams and their competition level amongst themselves moves up too. The Rebels being in the Idaho division wouldnt matter because they all play each other anyway. Were the Bullets as good as their record or were they in a bad Montana division? Same with Cobras and Sting in the Utah Division? The Bulldawgs smashed the 7-1 Sting at rheir hpuse in the playoffs and beat the Matadors, I think so if we talk Matadors we have to talk about them too. Just suggestions. Also, I said that top Montana teams move up next year. We have to take the time to get back.on track. It may take a year or two. Its more feasible to jump four Idaho teams up with a 5 or 6 hour drive than 1 Montana team with a 13 hour drive. According to Jess, we only said we would make an 8 team league. We didnt discuss how we would get there. I like all the ideas and hope we can figure iI out. This league has to get back on track.

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Now we base teams on how they faired in the playoffs?

Wow.

Welp. The Stealth weren't .500 so they should be AA.

Most of you are all arguing to stay down. Sugar coat it all you want.

We need a fix now for the future. Not a lets do this and this so we can have fixed in 2-3 years.

We've been doing that for the last half decade.

First it's because the AAA teams don't respect the AA teams.

Then it's because the top 4 are too good.

Then it's travel.

Then it's cost.

Then it's cuz teams can't compete for a championship.

What the hell is up with all these excuses?

What is the best option for the league?

Get it together. If you're not part of the majority to fix the league you're part of the problem.

So ask yourself, do you want to fix the problem for the betterment of the league?

And if you're even slighted a little bit by this post-- welp!

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Here's a question:

If your team made the AA playoffs, why shouldn't you move up?

Give me your reasons.

I'm trying to think of ideas to present to the league on how we should structure the league.

Why shouldn't any of 8 teams in the AA playoffs make the jump.

Why would a 13-16 team AAA be a bad idea? Go!

TD · Veteran Member

Love on-Being able to still play the game I love.

Hate on-The minority dictating the majority.

Love on-Tony Belford's calves

Hate on-The constant banter of what's wrong, instead of what's right.

Love on-Jeb Harrison saying "What are we in high school?!?!!?" after we ran a fake field goal :)

Hate on-Selfish people

Love on-Jurasek's inability to retire(Way to go, Brett!)

Hate on-Boise Spartans-FTG!

-- Edited by TD on Friday 13th of December 2013 02:02:05 AM

-- Edited by TD on Friday 13th of December 2013 02:44:29 AM

Bradthurber · Senior Member

Thus far, I've been a silent observer of this thread. This is exactly what the message board is for--to create and exchange ideas (hopefully in a productive way) and build camaraderie among the various players. Having said that, let me remind you of a couple of things:

1. We passed a motion at the league meeting last year to have a AAA of AT LEAST 8 teams. We didn't say it had to be the top 4 or each division champ, or anything else. We said at least 8 teams. We will stick to that this year--period. It could certainly include more than 8, but the AAA will include at least 8 teams.

2. As much as I appreciate the input from both players and GMs, it's the GMs that ultimately have the financial responsibility and voting power in the RMFL. My job as commissioner is merely to create ideas and do my best to facilitate the meeting for the Managing Board and then enforce the rules that they create--I don't even have a vote.

3. In my opinion, our league isn't "broken"; but there is always room for improvement. The RMFL isn't on the verge of any catastrophes. It's not going fold if we don't have the perfect league structure.

4. We need to have more than a one year at a time focus. Too many band aids to get us through this year. We need a process that is consistent and enforceable year after year.

5. There is no perfect scenario for all teams. The best we can do is create a process that is FAIR for all teams. Some will like it more than others. Some will benefit more than others (at least from year to year). Some will travel more than others.

At the end of the day, we are here to provide an opportunity for almost 1500 men to continue to play the best game every created with their friends in a fair, safe, and competitive environment; that they would not otherwise get without the RMFL. Call me naive, but if you thing there are more things wrong with the RMFL than right, feel free to either 1) start your own league, or 2) apply for my job. In the meantime, PLEASE keep an open mind, and be part of the solution, not the problem.

Merry Christmas everyone. I can't wait for 2014!

Bradthurber · Senior Member

Sorry for the typos, the message board has recently been blocked at my work and I had to type all of that on my IPhone.

TD · Veteran Member

Love on-Brad Thurber

Golden11 · Veteran Member

Bravo - Kyto

Bravo - Brad

Stick to your guns and the plan voted on.

thatguy · Veteran Member

Kyto, You keep saying we need to do what is best for the league. I guarantee that is not forcing teams into AAA. That can and has caused attrition of good football players when teams do not want to jump or did and were unsuccessfull. In my opinion, self admittedly not worth much if anything, scheduling games based on the previous years success could BETTER THE LEAGUE in a few ways. 1. I feel.the number of blowouts would drop significantly. Scheduling teams that are more closely matched would help.retainment and recruiting. 2. Fill out everyone's schedule so.that we don't have to play any team twice.in the regular season. 3. Place teams into three playoff brackets accprding to.results pf such games. If Stealth was .500 vs "AAA" teams yet 4-0 vs other competition they would.still be in "AAA" bracket. I truly feel that with a stacked schedule the disparity in talent levels and organizational strength would be apparent. Also, giving every team an extra game in a Playoff environment would make teams better through experience and also again retention and recruiting, both vital to the betterment of the league. Sample scheduling was posted in a previous post of min.

thatguy · Veteran Member

Jaye, the Bulldawgs hardly smashed the Sting. In fact, we were getting smashed at halftime, staged an impropable comeback, and still needed the Sting to fumble the ball while running the clock out to give us a last chance to win the game with 7 seconds left after an extra point gave us a 1 point lead.

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

thatguy wrote:
Kyto, You keep saying we need to do what is best for the league. I guarantee that is not forcing teams into AAA. That can and has caused attrition of good football players when teams do not want to jump or did and were unsuccessfull. In my opinion, self admittedly not worth much if anything, scheduling games based on the previous years success could BETTER THE LEAGUE in a few ways. 1. I feel.the number of blowouts would drop significantly. Scheduling teams that are more closely matched would help.retainment and recruiting. 2. Fill out everyone's schedule so.that we don't have to play any team twice.in the regular season. 3. Place teams into three playoff brackets accprding to.results pf such games. If Stealth was .500 vs "AAA" teams yet 4-0 vs other competition they would.still be in "AAA" bracket. I truly feel that with a stacked schedule the disparity in talent levels and organizational strength would be apparent. Also, giving every team an extra game in a Playoff environment would make teams better through experience and also again retention and recruiting, both vital to the betterment of the league. Sample scheduling was posted in a previous post of min.

What is your basis?

Blowouts are going to happen regardless. Do I need to pull some of the scores of the Generals games last year? Blowouts happen more when teams don't match up well. (i.e. AA teams and A teams)

As far as scheduling teams to play each other twice, that usually happens to supress travel. HOME/HOME are to help travel, they allow teams to stay close to home and limits the travel issues that we have been having since 2004.

Three playoff brackets would be tough, two is already tough enough but to try and categorize three playoff bracket with 20 plus teams would be tough because of strength of schedule. At the end of the day if you look at the last 5 years in the league, the teams who are atop the AAA and the AA are pretty much the same. The difference is we can't tell how good the AA top teams are against the bottom AAA because we allow the league to have a 5 team AAA.

Everything is already apparent when it comes to organizations and talent. It's pretty similar every year. Only a handful teams have a big drop or a big gain.

The reality is this: You get a few middle of the pack teams who are truly concerned about their team against the BIG FOUR. They bunch themselves with those middle teams who are atop the AA every year and is truly the middle of pack team EVERY year.

The argument was always that the AAA would bully this, or bully that. Is that true? The AAA had a 5 team league last year.

I've based everything I've said not in the best interest of the Utah Shock, but in the best of this league. I've seen it all. I've been here since the beginning.

I truly believe that a AAA/A league is the best option for the league. It truly allows the lower tier teams of our league to grow. It was always a AAA/AA battle. But in a reality it was the middle of the league dictating what this league does. Which isn't fair.

We voted for an 8 team AAA last year. And now all of a sudden the teams who would make the AAA 8 teams is already thinking of ways why we shouldn't be what we voted upon.

It's been this way for half a decade. Since the day the Logan Stampede said they'd fold if they had to play AAA. We allowed Great Falls to stay down... It's never a statement of the lower tier teams doing this or that and that's why the league is where they are. With the exception of Turk saying that the AAA merged all the good AAA teams, which is ridiculous to say coming from someone who plays for the Sting who BOUGHT another AA team to be in the league.

The teams who can't compete with the TOP of the AA need to stand up and realize THOSE teams are holding them back.

The lower tier teams let these middle teams dictate them around. The way they made it sound like they couldn't compete with the TOP tier teams while they just run the AA every year.. Essentially not letting THEIR teams grow.

We need to eliminate that.

16 teams in the AAA.

The rest in the A.

Top 6 of that 16 play in the AAA playoffs.

Next 6 play for the AA Championship.

This allows EVERYONE to develop their teams/organizations.

Those AA teams who say they can't compete can really see if they can or not. They are also able to market themselves as a AAA team because they will be playing the best teams.

Guys from Billings can really see if they can compete with the likes of the Shock, because to tell you the truth, NO ONE REALLY KNOWS! We don't ever get a chance to play.

Lancers, Guardians, Warriors, Oilers, Diggers, Vikings, Vipers...

Can you continually compete against the Matadors? Generals? Or would you truly like a chance to play games where they have meaning and you truly have a shot to win a championship?

Quite using the AAA as a scape goat.

AAA - Shock, Stealth, Rebels, Rev, Ducks, Sting, Stampede, Bulldawgs, Matadors, Generals, Gladiators, Bullets, *Logan, *Missoula, *Billngs2, Cobras

16 teams.

Top 6 - AAA playoffs

Next 6 - AA playoffs (Top 4 automatically is AAA next season)

2 to not advance and the next 4 can drop down or advance depending how they do.

EVERY TEAM HAS A LEGITIMATE CHANCE TO PLAY FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP. Will there be a team like the Shock who could be the lower seed in the AAA or TOP seed in the AA playoffs? Possibly, but if the Shock are in that position, its no guarantee they will win the AA championship still....

Think about it guys..

Then the A division--

Vipers, Lancers, Diggers, *Titans, Stangs, Oilers, Warriors, Vikings, Snow Devils, *Knights..

Who's going to win? Does anyone REALLY know?

Do you see my point yet folks?

The only people who should be against this idea... isn't going to tbe the AAA teams because they are still going to try to be the best of the best.. The lower A teams shouldn't be against having a legitimate shot of developing their team and organization..

It's going to be those same AA teams who don't want to play the BIG 4 AAA teams but still want to eat their cake and get their big wins against the bottom of the AA teams.

Most of the suggestions I've seen on this thread has been approached or tested at some point. Something needs to change. NOW.

-- Edited by KytoKhouang on Sunday 15th of December 2013 10:19:37 PM

Turkelton · Senior Member

KytoKhouang wrote:
thatguy wrote:
Kyto, You keep saying we need to do what is best for the league. I guarantee that is not forcing teams into AAA. That can and has caused attrition of good football players when teams do not want to jump or did and were unsuccessfull. In my opinion, self admittedly not worth much if anything, scheduling games based on the previous years success could BETTER THE LEAGUE in a few ways. 1. I feel.the number of blowouts would drop significantly. Scheduling teams that are more closely matched would help.retainment and recruiting. 2. Fill out everyone's schedule so.that we don't have to play any team twice.in the regular season. 3. Place teams into three playoff brackets accprding to.results pf such games. If Stealth was .500 vs "AAA" teams yet 4-0 vs other competition they would.still be in "AAA" bracket. I truly feel that with a stacked schedule the disparity in talent levels and organizational strength would be apparent. Also, giving every team an extra game in a Playoff environment would make teams better through experience and also again retention and recruiting, both vital to the betterment of the league. Sample scheduling was posted in a previous post of min.
What is your basis?

Blowouts are going to happen regardless. Do I need to pull some of the scores of the Generals games last year? Blowouts happen more when teams don't match up well. (i.e. AA teams and A teams)
As far as scheduling teams to play each other twice, that usually happens to supress travel. HOME/HOME are to help travel, they allow teams to stay close to home and limits the travel issues that we have been having since 2004.
Three playoff brackets would be tough, two is already tough enough but to try and categorize three playoff bracket with 20 plus teams would be tough because of strength of schedule. At the end of the day if you look at the last 5 years in the league, the teams who are atop the AAA and the AA are pretty much the same. The difference is we can't tell how good the AA top teams are against the bottom AAA because we allow the league to have a 5 team AAA.
Everything is already apparent when it comes to organizations and talent. It's pretty similar every year. Only a handful teams have a big drop or a big gain.
The reality is this: You get a few middle of the pack teams who are truly concerned about their team against the BIG FOUR. They bunch themselves with those middle teams who are atop the AA every year and is truly the middle of pack team EVERY year.
The argument was always that the AAA would bully this, or bully that. Is that true? The AAA had a 5 team league last year.

I've based everything I've said not in the best interest of the Utah Shock, but in the best of this league. I've seen it all. I've been here since the beginning.

I truly believe that a AAA/A league is the best option for the league. It truly allows the lower tier teams of our league to grow. It was always a AAA/AA battle. But in a reality it was the middle of the league dictating what this league does. Which isn't fair.

We voted for an 8 team AAA last year. And now all of a sudden the teams who would make the AAA 8 teams is already thinking of ways why we shouldn't be what we voted upon.

It's been this way for half a decade. Since the day the Logan Stampede said they'd fold if they had to play AAA. We allowed Great Falls to stay down... It's never a statement of the lower tier teams doing this or that and that's why the league is where they are. With the exception of Turk saying that the AAA merged all the good AAA teams, which is ridiculous to say coming from someone who plays for the Sting who BOUGHT another AA team to be in the league.
The teams who can't compete with the TOP of the AA need to stand up and realize THOSE teams are holding them back.
The lower tier teams let these middle teams dictate them around. The way they made it sound like they couldn't compete with the TOP tier teams while they just run the AA every year.. Essentially not letting THEIR teams grow.
We need to eliminate that.
16 teams in the AAA.
The rest in the A.

Top 6 of that 16 play in the AAA playoffs.
Next 6 play for the AA Championship.
This allows EVERYONE to develop their teams/organizations.

Those AA teams who say they can't compete can really see if they can or not. They are also able to market themselves as a AAA team because they will be playing the best teams.
Guys from Billings can really see if they can compete with the likes of the Shock, because to tell you the truth, NO ONE REALLY KNOWS! We don't ever get a chance to play.

Lancers, Guardians, Warriors, Oilers, Diggers, Vikings, Vipers...
Can you continually compete against the Matadors? Generals? Or would you truly like a chance to play games where they have meaning and you truly have a shot to win a championship?
Quite using the AAA as a scape goat.

AAA - Shock, Stealth, Rebels, Rev, Ducks, Sting, Stampede, Bulldawgs, Matadors, Generals, Gladiators, Bullets, *Logan, *Missoula, *Billngs2, Cobras
16 teams.
Top 6 - AAA playoffs
Next 6 - AA playoffs (Top 4 automatically is AAA next season)
2 to not advance and the next 4 can drop down or advance depending how they do.

EVERY TEAM HAS A LEGITIMATE CHANCE TO PLAY FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP. Will there be a team like the Shock who could be the lower seed in the AAA or TOP seed in the AA playoffs? Possibly, but if the Shock are in that position, its no guarantee they will win the AA championship still....

Think about it guys..
Then the A division--
Vipers, Lancers, Diggers, *Titans, Stangs, Oilers, Warriors, Vikings, Snow Devils, *Knights..

Who's going to win? Does anyone REALLY know?

Do you see my point yet folks?
The only people who should be against this idea... isn't going to tbe the AAA teams because they are still going to try to be the best of the best.. The lower A teams shouldn't be against having a legitimate shot of developing their team and organization..
It's going to be those same AA teams who don't want to play the BIG 4 AAA teams but still want to eat their cake and get their big wins against the bottom of the AA teams.
Most of the suggestions I've seen on this thread has been approached or tested at some point. Something needs to change. NOW.

-- Edited by KytoKhouang on Sunday 15th of December 2013 10:19:37 PM

I honestly like this idea better than any proposed to this point. Still having playoffs for an A and AA division has to be appealing to everyone. If the league could pull that off it would be fun to watch.

thatguy · Veteran Member

I have been suggesting getting rid of regular season labels to divisions. I also feel like the difference between the Bulldawgs and Stealth is a wider gap than between the Bulldawgs and Lancers. My reason being that we don't have the size and talent level(evident by the lack of college experienced players) as most AAA teams. The Lancers could recruit a few good players and significantly improve. The upper tier AA teams would need as many as ten to twenty guys? especially some large and talented lineman. Being willing to disregard such hard drawn lines of classifications could eliminate playing teams twice AND alleviate travel concerns. To be honest I can't remember how well the Stampede did in AAA, but it was fairly( cough extremely) obvious how the Gladiators and Bulldawgs did...you stated most teams ate similar every year. I completely agree. Thus, WHAT IS YOUR REASONING IN WANTING TEAMS THAT DID NOT FARE WELL IN AAA BACK? The AA with the exception of Generalsand Gladiators during their two year run, the AA cyckes teams quite well. The Sabercats built their team fo years and made the championrgame eventually. he Mustangs were undefeated that year in regular season two years ago, and were in tge bo ttm half this year. The first year diggers made the playoffs, close the second, and a tough year kast year. The only teams in AA that have not had winning seasons? Elko, Lancers, Guardians...all new teams My suggestion here has been to eliminate lines of classification, schedule teams to create the best matchups possible, and better the league through experience recruiting and retention.

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

thatguy wrote:
I have been suggesting getting rid of regular season labels to divisions. I also feel like the difference between the Bulldawgs and Stealth is a wider gap than between the Bulldawgs and Lancers. My reason being that we don't have the size and talent level(evident by the lack of college experienced players) as most AAA teams.
The Utah Shock have one college experience player. A lot of the AAA teams have maybe max 5 ex collegiate players?
2012 Utah Stealth vs Magic Valley Bulldawgs --- Stealth 54 Bulldawgs 7.
2013 Magic Valley Bulldawgs vs Idaho Lancers --- Bulldawgs 71 Lancers 0. That's a close gap?
Remember the 2012 Stealth finished 9-2 while the 2013 Stealth finished 4-6.
The Magic Valley Bulldawgs scored more points than the Vikings, Guardians, Lancers, Warriors, and Vipers... COMBINED

The Lancers could recruit a few good players and significantly improve.
How is this possible with the best of the best probably wanting to play with the Generals?
The upper tier AA teams would need as many as ten to twenty guys? especially some large and talented lineman. Being willing to disregard such hard drawn lines of classifications could eliminate playing teams twice AND alleviate travel concerns.
To be honest I can't remember how well the Stampede did in AAA, but it was fairly( cough extremely) obvious how the Gladiators and Bulldawgs did...
The Logan Stampede was one pass interference call away from eliminating the eventual champion Utah Stealth two years ago.
The Great Falls Gladiators made the playoffs.
you stated most teams ate similar every year. I completely agree. Thus, WHAT IS YOUR REASONING IN WANTING TEAMS THAT DID NOT FARE WELL IN AAA BACK?
Every team that is classified AAA in all associations tied with semi-pro/minor league football is considered the best of their league. What does it say about our league when we have 5 AAA teams and 20+ AA teams? Shouldn't we be developing teams to get better or stay stagnant?
The AA with the exception of Generalsand Gladiators during their two year run, the AA cyckes teams quite well. The Sabercats built their team fo years and made the championrgame eventually. he Mustangs were undefeated that year in regular season two years ago, and were in tge bo ttm half this year.
The Mustangs were a AAA team. They were also one of the best teams when the league merged and they were the team who ruined the Rhino-Raiders STREAK. The Sabercats joined the league when we did.
The first year diggers made the playoffs, close the second, and a tough year kast year. The only teams in AA that have not had winning seasons? Elko, Lancers, Guardians...all new teams
You can't use the Sabercats in one sentence and then the Lancers in the next. Same team, different name.
My suggestion here has been to eliminate lines of classification, schedule teams to create the best matchups possible, and better the league through experience recruiting and retention.

Without classfications you allow teams to have way easier schedules than others, you also make it generally one big league again which would be detrimental to this league. Classifications wouldn't be an argument if teams wouldn't stay down and try to stay up.

-- Edited by KytoKhouang on Sunday 15th of December 2013 11:40:37 PM

-- Edited by KytoKhouang on Sunday 15th of December 2013 11:43:40 PM

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

It seems to me that a lot of OTHER middle teams are arguing as to why they shouldn't have to move up (i.e. Cobras and Bulldawgs)

What about the Matadors?

Since 2006, (not including the 2009 Matadors/Spartans merger) the Matadors are 42-19 in the AA.

I don't like including the Gladiators into the mix, because they were put in the AAA as the lone MT team, but that's their own fault for running the table wire to wire/back to back.

If all middle of the pack teams JUMP up

Idaho should have the Generals/Matadors/Arco/Bulldawgs.

Montana should have the new Missoula team, Great Falls, Billings, and probably the new Billings team.

Most if not all of Montana should want to move up and stick with their neighboring teams and if they truly can't compete would still be able to compete for the AA title, the same thing they'd be competing for without the merger but with the opportunity to face the SUPER 4 and see how they match up.

We'd have Idaho teams in both divisions so they would still get their games that close and Utah would as well.

If the 8 teams that made the AA playoffs move up and we do have 3 seperate playoffs what does it hurt?

It doesn't allow the 71-0 game that the Bulldawgs gave the Lancers.

If the Stealth was to whoop the Bulldawgs 71-0 the Bulldawgs would still have a chance at the AA playoffs in my scenario wouldn't they?

If the Bulldawgs are down with the Lancers, what do the Lancers really have to play for?

thatguy · Veteran Member

I'm not going to call you a liar, so I'll take you at your word as to having one player with collegiate experience. However, you are sadly misinformed, as I have looked at the Revolution and Rebels rosters in the past when they had 10+ (a conservative number) players with college experience varying from the oft mentioned Utah, State, Dixie, all the way to Washington, Texas AnM...kid yourself Kyto... If you would have a large AAA then delegate certain teams to a AA championship, how would that differ from my suggestion? I know you care about the league, and I respect your ability to run a great organization. However I have always found your demeanor, confrontational persona, and cutoff Ts and backward hats heavily on the Semi side, less on the Pro...see what i did there?

thatguy · Veteran Member

My suggestion actually had teams like the Bulldawgs eliminating games vs Guardians 86-0, and Lancers 71-0 and replacing them vs a "AAA" team. Several of your posts have made me think you did not read and/or understand my earlier post. I'll repost it. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Turkelton · Senior Member

Well here we go! Things should get REALLY interesting now! biggrin Popcorn anyone?

thatguy · Veteran Member

thatguy wrote:
Stack the schedule so that teams at their current level, it truly can vary so much year to year, have the best opportunity to compete and get better. Examples: Elko vs Davis, oilers, lancers, guardians, diggers, cobras, Bulldawgs, mustangs. A next tier team like Cobras would play vs Sting, oilers, diggers, stampede, mustangs, Vikings, mud ducks, shock. Sting would play similar schedule with Bulldawgs and maybe a Boise team matadors, generals). Shock vs mudducks, rebels, rev, stealth, sting, logan, generals, bulldawgs. rebels vs shock, rev, mudducks, stealth, sting, stampede, bulldawgs, cobras. Virtually take the mid to top AA teams and trade games vs bottom four AA teams for a top tier AA Utah or Montana team and AAA teams to help fill out schedules. Maybe we are stuck too much on hard lines of alignment and classifications to see what is really best for "the league" which is a thousand or so guys who still like to play football. So why not play a schedule to determine post season classifications based on head to head outcomes. I'd have to believe that all off our Saturdays are worth enough that nobody sandbags. Again don't plan before the season on a specific number of teams in each playoff bracket, but actually evaluate the seasons results and determine if there are still 4 AAA teams way better ie. didn't lose a game to anyone outside of each other...or maybe a couple top tier AA teams show they can beat all AA teams and a couple AAA teAms. Maybe the mustangs, vipers, Vikings, have a strong year and are AA instead of A playoff team as they would have finished last year. Just spitballing here...

SilverBullet · Newbie

Guys, the Bullets are the only team in Billings. The other team applying will be in Laurel. As far as the Bullets, I have spoken with Brad about the possibility of moving up to the AAA, as long as it is logistically practical, I have every confidence we can compete and represent Billings with class for years to come in the RMFL at either the AAA or AA. See you guys in a few weeks at the League Meeting.
Jeff Kumpula
Billings Bullets Football

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

thatguy wrote:
I'm not going to call you a liar, so I'll take you at your word as to having one player with collegiate experience. However, you are sadly misinformed, as I have looked at the Revolution and Rebels rosters in the past when they had 10+ (a conservative number) players with college experience varying from the oft mentioned Utah, State, Dixie, all the way to Washington, Texas AnM...kid yourself Kyto... If you would have a large AAA then delegate certain teams to a AA championship, how would that differ from my suggestion? I know you care about the league, and I respect your ability to run a great organization. However I have always found your demeanor, confrontational persona, and cutoff Ts and backward hats heavily on the Semi side, less on the Pro...see what i did there?

The difference between you and I and knowing the AAA roster is this, I play in the AAA. I've played in the AAA since 2007. I've played in this league since 2004. I see what's on the field. Just because someone says they attended a college doesn't mean...they went and had playing experience at a college.

As far as personally attacking me or "my demeanor, confrotational persnona," and my clothes. Um, there's a wide difference between you and I. First off, if my outfit or my posts on this site gets you to the point where you really dislike me or my "confrontational persona", Then you're the one who's judging a book by it's cover. I don't need to stick up for myself against you. You see, when I want stuff done for my league, for OUR league, I don't sit here and just post stuff on the board. I have a voice, a vote, and opinion. How many times have you talked to Jess Peterson this past week? How about Brad Thurber? Or how many times have I said the SHOCK need this or the SHOCK want this done...

What about YOU? What do those Bulldawgs need? I read and examine everything that is said, so you don't need to repeat yourself. Maybe if you make yourself more respectable rather than be "thatguy", someone may listen to you. Or maybe if you made a true conscious effort to help the league and pick up the phone, someone will. Until then, my pro side will say good day, and my heavily semi side has one middle finger waving to you. See what I did there?

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

SilverBullet wrote:
Guys, the Bullets are the only team in Billings. The other team applying will be in Laurel. As far as the Bullets, I have spoken with Brad about the possibility of moving up to the AAA, as long as it is logistically practical, I have every confidence we can compete and represent Billings with class for years to come in the RMFL at either the AAA or AA. See you guys in a few weeks at the League Meeting.
Jeff Kumpula
Billings Bullets Football

Jeff,

My mistake. Sorry about that, I knew there was another team up there somewhere. So I apologize for that.

See you in a few weeks!

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Nighthawk wrote:
thatguy wrote:
Just wrote you a lengthy message that my poopy phone screwed up.delivering. Id like to.talk with you more Mr. Eyre. I am Ryan VerWey of Bulldawgs. you can email me at drverwey@gm ail.com or call, 208-308-3279. We can talk about this more or how much you hate me for my second hal in the playoff game I.still chalk up.as damn near miraculous and/or through.divine intervention. I'm not that good at QB yet...
Now that his name comes out, all of his posts make sense. He doesn't want HIS team to move up. He is content being a "middle tier team". He thinks of this as a rec league. Well if this is a rec league, why do we have playoffs, championships and all-star games? Why don't all the teams just make their own schedule, then the Bulldawgs can schedule the Guardians every week to put up 86... SMDH

THIS~

Trevor Phillips enterprises · Member

Whoa...... Look what I started....this forum was dead....

First off, NO ONE should judge someone off their clothes or hat in an internet forum picture...That's too easy...Your supposed to pick on the soda he is holding...Root beer? Cream soda? Laotian cola? (What ocean?)

2nd, Kyto is right, there are 3 levels and the 3 level playoff would work. High school and College have many levels and many bowl games in the NCAA keep teams happy

AAA-

4 Idaho, Mats, Gens, Dogs, Anarchy

8 Utah (2 divsions), 5 from last year.. plus Sting, Stampede, Cobras

4 Montana- Laurel, Billings, GF, Missoula

Boom there is 16 teams...Top 6 AAA playoffs..Next 6 Seeded to AA playoffs. If travel is a problem for regular season. Boom you have 6 games inter divsion, no need to complain

That leaves 10 A teams who all play each other once 9 game season... Long games, fix the distance by hosting games in Pocatello or at SASA... SASA need a bunch of games, make them regular season games, so people show up......

Again WHY IS A AAA team who chose to leave instead of playing ball even being considered for AA.. FOCUS PEOPLE they will hold the meeting hostage again (Stampede)

Quit comparing them to the Sting they Backdoored the league by buying the AA Stampede not the AAA....Don't be fooled....Make them both go to AAA or make them quit for another year

But Hey...

No matter what there will be football

P.S.....The Shock seem to be doing just fine consistently that making fun of that team isn't as cool as making fun of the Generals or Sting

P.P.S..... What Ocean?

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Don't agree with me. That's not fun. :(

D Ryan VerWey · Member

Whoa there TPE! Im pretty sure you mean, "I agree with Ryan V, three playoffs..." There isn't much of a difference between what Kyto has suggested and what I have. He's just sp darn confrontational its hard to get things through to him. Kyto, were closer in thoights here than u think. I want one league then 3 playoffs, you want to get rid of one league and then have 3 playoffs. But the results of scheduling and then delegations based on record will look quite similar. I have met you in person several times, it just so.happens that an All Star game in Sugar Salem was the first time, may have been where your pic was taken. I have also messaged you, picked up the phone and spoke to you, then talked with you again very shortly as you kind of brushed me aside in Jerome again at an All Star game. Did not have the pleasure of playing against you with the Bulldawgs, I missed. a season spending 4 months at Ft. Knox. What I wanted to talk with you about in the past was the fact that all the Harley Davidson stores from Boise to Poky and down into Salt Lake are owned by two maybe three guys. I thought a league deal with them would be possible. A Harley logo on the front shpulder of all unis qould lpok cool, and a selling point would be that all RMFL players should fall directly into their demographic of customers. I have been involved with the league since 2006, and did.also.play AAA. Correct me if I am wrong because I mention this when I am discussing our league with interested parties, but I believe I was sacked once by a man with not pnly collegiate experience, but a Super Bowl ring from the Rev. Like I stated before, I do think you care aboit the league, I do as well. I will be on the phone this week with some contacts I have, and will introduce myself at the league meeting. Not sure if we have accomplished anything but getting people riled up here, but its been fun! I'm not a bird flipping man myself, like ypu and the always entertaining Hoop/follower I enjoy using a sharp tongue and sheepish grin to upset people.

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

So-- now you change your name to your real name..

And NOW you'll call Jess and Brad..

I don't recall anytime talking to you accept once on the phone and when we met in Jerome, Heaven forbid I brushed you off because all of my friends got their stuff stolen from the locker rooms. I apologize.

Good idea with Harley. What happened? Where was the follow through? What did you present to them? Did you approach Golden with this when he was the Marketing Director? Was the league approached?

And sorry you got sacked by Tema, but can you post the video? I find it hard that Tema played in a game against the Bulldawgs. CP, Golden, can you guys verify?

The difference is this: I never used an alias. I'm always in direct contact with Brad, Sarge, and Jess. And Dave and Travis before them, and Jared before them.

I may be confrontational. I may be a loud mouth. But I don't just complain to this message board. I could care less what you or anyone thinks of me on this board. If what I say on this board is your basis of me, well, okay then.

Haven't changed and never will.

If you don't have classifications, and your Harley rep happens to stumble upon a Guardians/Vipers game..

How do you explain that?

Classifications mean something, getting rid of it completely is a bad idea.

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Also, don't put The Follower??? and Hoop in the same breath.

You've offended The Follower???.

D Ryan VerWey · Member

Soooooooo confrontational! No follow up, I was hoping to piggy back someone with clout and vision.Also, have we tried selling ads on the message board? A lot of traffic here...There are more dedicated and intelligent men than myself helping run our league and to them I say thanks. But the people have spoken, and nobody wants to.jump to AAA. Maybe we've had a breakthrough here. An 8-10 teamAAA is probably not the answere, however a much larger AAA could be. My feeling is that the largest concern of top tier AA teams was 1. Travel, 2. Half of their schedule vs the Big 4. The 12 team AAA could virtually eliminate those concerns. At the end of the season I believe there will be enough evidence fpr delegations to be fairly obvious. The possible achilles here, the distance between the A teams may now be more than a large AAA would make...did I just find incentive in being AAA?

D Ryan VerWey · Member

Wait...I'm confused. I thought Hoop was The Follower???

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Hoop wishes he was The Follower???

And traffic on this site has dropped dramatically since we changed to this site as well as the Facebook page becoming so popular. Traffic here isn't half of what it was.

No one wants to advertise here.

D Ryan VerWey · Member

A man is standing in line at a train station. The woman in front of him is gorgeous and has extremely large breasts, not afraid to show them off either...he is extremely distracted by her and as she walks off he shuffles to the window. "Can I get two pickets to titsburg?" The attendant laughs. "I'm sorry," he says, " I was just a little distracted." Nodding in the direction of the lady. The addendant says, " I understand. The other night I was having dinner with my wife and I meant to ask her to pass the salt. Instead I said, you freakin wench(keeping it clean)y ou ruined my life!

-- Edited by D Ryan VerWey on Monday 16th of December 2013 11:14:19 PM

dwbaranowski · Senior Member

Funny stuff... same old pre-season song and dance. I like the fact that some people are hellbent on trying to run down the Sting (not naming names because you're not memorable or worth scrolling back up to see who it was). As far as the Sting "backdooring" the league... no one held a gun to anyone else's head, forcing the AA Stampede to be sold and the way I see it, the move lessened what would've been a 2 team attrition into a 1 team attrition.

"B-b-b-b-but if them AA Stampede players hadn't-a gone to da Sting, maybe they coulda beefed up the AAA Stampede roster and saved the AAA team." Yuuuup... except for their player's rights were SOLD to the Eyres, not stolen.

Kyto's onto something... Brad's onto something... James is onto something and as a player, I'm all for a sensible league alignment that puts the Sting in AAA. On the night of the league meeting, I'll be praying (OK, "praying" is a bit strong) that a bunch of grown men can make a decision that benefits the group, not just their own personal little corners of the world. Bear in mind that I said "sensible"... if the teams that finished above us don't step up, what sense does it even make to have the word "Sting" come out of your mouth? At the end of the day, the Sting doesn't have to impress any of the forum experts... we have to cater to the people who actually pay to watch us, haters get to take a back seat (or no seat).

Golden11 · Veteran Member

Yes.....this is the same ole song and dance. THE ONLY WAY....that this is resolved is where the MAJORITY of those with a say commit. Kyto's argument is TO that majority. AAA = 5 Teams, AA = 12-16 Teams (MAJORITY), A = 6-8 Teams

I love his idea, but I don't have a say. Unless you do, then your points are moot. Speak to your team management. Management will follow the players wishes....just watch.

The one REAL reality is that there are 3 levels of teams in the RMFL. The problem has always been that their are only 2 divisions. Kyto's scenario incorporates more competitive matches than any other every presented.

NOW...will the MAJORITY LISTEN?

KytoKhouang wrote:

And sorry you got sacked by Tema, but can you post the video? I find it hard that Tema played in a game against the Bulldawgs. CP, Golden, can you guys verify?

The last year that Setema played was 2009. It wouldn't surprise me if he was sacked by him. Setema was also 36 years old at the time, well past his prime.

KytoKhouang · Senior Member

Setema last played in 2009. Bulldawgs didn't move up til 2010.

I'm no math whiz, just Asian, but...

D Ryan VerWey · Member

Hmmm...well it was my first game at any level playing QB, so wen I heard that he was playing I bought it as I was pretty much a tackling dummy. Too bad, other than pissing of Kyto, that was my claim to fame...even with my real name on here I'm still a nobody...

DeliriousDan · Member

Lets put every teams name in a hat, the first 13 teams will be "AAA" the rest will be "AA". All joking a side, I do like Kyto's idea. I think that would bring a competitive balance to the league. But what do I know, I'm only going into my second year.....

jebharrison · Veteran Member

Was I just imagining what we said at last years meeting about moving the top 4 AA teams up?? Maybe I am? Any help on that issue?

Kytos plan could work... But we have tried to have a to change the league structure twice in the last couple years. Bills proposed by the Mustangs and the Generals in the last few years eliminating AAA/AA split in favor of local games failed resoundingly. Changing the whole league structure is a difficult thing to do.

Why dont we start like this... Move up the top AA teams Generals and Gladiators... Like the rules say. Lets stick with that.

Then go from there. And see what teams want to go up. Stampede, Bulletts, Bulldawgs, Matadors.

If we stick to our rules....something we never do... then we would need only 1 team to go up. But it makes sense if the Generals/Gladiators go up then the Matadors and Bulletts go up.. You could give each one of the them a home and home with each other like we used to.

My point is we either follow the rules...or we change the RMFL Constitution to say " and in subsequent years we throw and hands up every year and say F&*% it.. Lets start all over"

Bradthurber · Senior Member

Jeb,

The only specific motion we passed last year was that the AAA will have at least 8 teams. So, at a minimum we have to move 3 of the AA teams up. Obviously the Generals are a given as AA Champs. After that, the next teams for consideration would be the Gladiators, Matadors, & Bulldawgs. Gladiators, by way of being in the Championship should be considered, although they would have significantly more travel. While the Bulldawgs and Matadors neither one made it to the Championship game, they could certainly handle the travel more easily and would be the next tier of trams in consideration. The 16 team option would also satisfy the requirement of at least 8 teams, if it is supported by the majority of the Managing Board. I, more than anyone understands the need to have a process in place and the discipline to follow that process. Either of these solutions meet the objective of at least an 8 team AAA we passed last year. I will be sending out an email to the Managing Board fairly soon with more details for each proposal. Both will be designed for long-term implementation; not just as a one year fix.

Brad

jebharrison · Veteran Member

Ok got ya. So I am only kinda crazy...

Air Traffic Control · Newbie

Im new to this league and this forum. But I did go look at this past seasons statistics and final standings and the Generals need to move up. No question were they dominant in AA. They should be required to take their talents to an upper league regardless of how many players they are claiming to lose. Play the 2014 season in AAA, after the season re-evaluate where they belong. All that needs to happen is the league being disciplined in their policies of determining which league a team needs to play in.

BlazeFan · Member

The Follower likes me. Hoop doesn't. Big difference.