On Friday, January 23, 2015 there was an RMFL vote that took place that chose to have the RMFL Playoffs set with seeds 1 vs. 8 - doesn't matter about North or South, just overall records. With that scenario, the playoffs would have looked like this:
#8 Logan Stampede @ #1 Zion Lions
#7 Davis Vipers @ #2 Wasatch REVolution
#6 Brigham Sting @ #3 Loco Express
#5 Idaho Mustangs @ #4 Utah Shock
Would those playoffs be better served than what our current format is?
Why should a team that finished the regular season at 7-1 have to travel to a team that would have been a lower seed?
I'm still very disappointed in the North vs. South situation. The South went 11-3 vs. the North this year - yet the North gets rewarded with 2 teams that had no business being in the playoffs - the 4-4 Arco Anarchy (OUT of playoffs due to forfeit) and the 3-5 Great Falls Gladiators. And then, to top it off, they automatically get 2 teams in the semi-finals? That's just pathetic.
2 teams that may have been surprises in the playoffs - the 4-4 Davis Vipers and the 4-4 Logan Stampede - didn't even get a chance to compete in the playoffs..... what a joke.
Coulda woulda shoulda. "It is what it is" - that's the worst freakin' thing I ever hear. "It is what it is" because that's what dipsh** owners decided to make it - thanks Rex Stacy and James Eyre (I only pick on them because they were squeamish enough to change their vote from Friday night to Saturday morning) - in an "emergency meeting" on Saturday, January 24.
Now a 7-1 team gets to travel to a team they beat earlier in the year - rather than having the opportunity to host themselves. Doesn't make much sense.
Anyway, there's my rant... I feel better. :)
As far as the MVP talk - is that even really a discussion? The best player on the best team, 8-0. Misi Tupe.
I am not sure if we will ever have a playoff that works best. Last year we finished 7-1 and had to do all that traveling for the playoffs. Though we had a good run it sucked. I do like the top 8 team playoff idea as well. It puts the best teams in. Is that not what we want?
No matter what playoff structure there is people won't be happy. You could argue the sting and shock had a harder schedule so should be ranked higher. No matter what we will end up with the best 2 teams playing for the championship.
@Spivey - shut the front door. That's another "it is what it is" comment. Also, the Sting and Shock both finished 5-3. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? I respect people's opinions but dude... c'mon maaaaaaaan.
@blitzrebelslions - you would think? The goal should be to get the top 8 teams in the playoffs... unfortunately, it didn't pan out that way this year due to partiality for the North. Good luck this weekend against the Mustangs, I heard they're going to forfeit?
-- Edited by chuckypita on Monday 15th of June 2015 12:06:03 AM
Technically in your format sting should be ahead of Mustangs because they would have the same record with the sos going to sting. And people would complain even with that format. People will say a 3Loss shock should be ahead of a 2 loss loco team. Then we would have some one else complaing that They have to travel. I am game for a 8 team playoff. But honestly i am just tired of every one complaining all the time. And when i was saying you could argue that the sting and shock could argue that They should be ranked higher i was meaning in the format you posted.
-- Edited by spivey64 on Monday 15th of June 2015 02:43:34 AM
-- Edited by spivey64 on Monday 15th of June 2015 02:44:50 AM
The original vote was to place the teams 1 - 4 in North and 1- 4 in South and cross division the first round which Would have had the bracket like this.
N4 Gladiators at S1 Lions
N3 Anarchy at S2 Rev
S3 Shock at N2 Mustangs
S4 Sting at N1 Loco Express
The only reason I didn't care about the structure of the playoffs is because the object is to get the best two teams to the championship and both ways will accomplish that. The only difference is that maybe an argument could be made that the Shock and Sting could have made it to the second round. But the best two teams will be playing at Weber. And even in the original format if Laurel beat the Sting then S2 Rev would have gone to N1 Locos.
I can see the purpose of having conferences, you only have to be the best of 7-8 teams than all 15 to be a #1 seed. But at the same time it has given the Northern teams an advantage, that we probably should not have. It is not lost on me that the Shock are out of the playoffs while the 5-3 Mustangs are still in it. I think that we have 2 options that will help the league as a whole. The only problem with the 2 options is they add more travel. But like was argued at the league meeting, travel is part of the RMFL, and if we don't like it, leave. Or forfeit and not get voted back in. The two options that I think are best are:
1. No conferences, play 8 games and get ranked 1-8. SOS will be a HUGE deal in this one, as not everyone in the playoffs played the same teams.
2. Have conferences that are NOT geographically oriented. You put the REV in one conference, and the Lions in another. Call them Mountain West, and Intermountain conferences, or whatever you want. to avoid too much travel, you have 2 divisions within the conferences. You play everyone in your division, 2-3 teams in the other division (depending on how many teams are in the league), and 2 teams in the other conference. Then the top 2 teams in each division makes the playoffs, and you compete throughout the playoffs within your conference, until the championship where the victors of each conference play for the league title.
As you can tell, I'm more partial to option 2.
Has anyone else realized that we might be down to around 16 teams next year? (assuming rumors of certain teams not returning are correct, and the Anarchy and Guardians not getting voted back in). Is it time to start thinking about merging AA & AAA?
For travel purposes, I'm fine with things set up the way they were for the first round. Keep the 2 conferences like it was this year. I think the only complaint I have is the fact that we have to travel 9 hours to play a team we already beat fairly handily that has a worse record. After the first round, you reseed top to bottom based on record, head-to-head and SOS. All the usual tiebreakers. Pretty sure that's how the NFL and NBA do it. Obviously they have 30+ teams so keeping them separated in conferences til the title game makes more sense. Using this format, we'd have SG hosting IF and the Rev hosting Laurel. This would've only added 1 extra game of long travel and the 2 best teams (record wise) would be hosting.
Going back to an earlier post comparing us to the NFL, the Panthers hosted this year with a losing or close to losing record. However, the next round they had to travel to the team with the better record. That way, you only get rewarded once for winning your division and then other teams get rewarded for having the better record. Same with the NBA. Portland hosted first round against Memphis (who had the better record) because Portland won their division. Next round then goes to the better record team hosting.
Food for thought. Oh well, luckily the Rev don't believe in bitchassness and we'll be coming up 30 strong! Safe travels to all and best of luck this weekend!
I get where you are coming from. But the Panthers also went and played some other team within their conference. they didn't have to play someone in the other conference. We should stay in our conferences throughout the playoffs, otherwise what is the point of having conferences? To avoid having a 2014 Super Bowl every year in the RMFL, we should have conferences that are not based on geography. We all know and recognize who the best two teams are in this league. We should put them in separate conferences, and let the season play out that way. Otherwise, just get rid of conferences, because they are pointless if we cross-seed during the playoffs.
Its pretty short sighted to say the Lions and Rev will always be the best teams, so we should put them in different conferences. I guess you don't remember the Stealth won two years in a row and now they are at the bottom of the league. My point is the teams at the top don't always stay there, especially in this league where having one or two players retire can totally disrupt a team, or having a couple of new players can come in and turn a team into a contender.
I still like geographic conferences better because of the travel requirements. There would be a lot more forfeits if you did it differently. The teams in the far north and far south would have to travel more than they do now and it is already a hardship.
I think Chuckypita is right, the best way is just rank the teams at the end of the season 1-8 and go from there. Higher ranked team get home field. It should still gives a team from the north the advantage because it should be easier to go undefeated or only lose a game because the rest of the conference is weaker. Think of the Generals a couple of years ago. The problem this year is the north teams had a lot of parity and when they played against a south team they lost.
That makes sense, except then having conferences just helps the Northern teams. If we are going to seed 1-8, we shouldn't have conferences. Because then middle-of -the-pack teams in Utah never get a chance to get into the playoffs, because they pretty much have at least 3 automatic losses every season for as long as the big 3 are around. (assuming the Shock don't lose to teams like the Stampede). I understand that we need to look long-term and not with current talent levels, but for the foreseeable future, the non-big 3 teams in Utah would be hating life, because they don't get to play mediocre teams, week-in and week-out. now if they are okay with that, and don't mind playing for the toilet bowl, or traveling throughout the playoffs every season, then more power to them!
I just hope that we can really get some good discussion on these topics. I think there is no way to make everyone happy, but there is definitely a better option than we are currently experiencing.
-- Edited by blah blah blah on Monday 15th of June 2015 12:45:05 PM
Or go true NFL style - only have 6 of 15 teams make playoffs with #1 and #2 seeds getting 1st round byes. That way, only trams with winning records would have made playoffs.
so only 6 teams make the playoffs?.....at LEAST 3 teams are pretty much a lock.....that leaves 11 teams to fight for 3 spots? the teams that are currently our AA are pretty much eliminated from day 1 so what's to play for? I've said it for years, if we can't put ALL the teams in a hat and draw ANY team versus ANY team than we cannot be one league. the issue is EXPECTATIONS vs EFFORT vs RESOURCES. we need to find out what each team wants, needs or expects from a season. we also need to find out how much a gm / team is willing to put in so they can achieve those expectations. not all teams have the same agenda. until we separate the league based on what people think a successful season is, we will always have problems. some say best of the best, some say weekend "show up and play" warriors and some say something to play for (regardless of level). there are so many variables in this league that nobody seems to take into account and everyone wants what's best for their team. we forget that this is a rec league and everyone should be able to choose what the competition level is for their team.....regardless of ANY OTHER TEAM. i am against sand-bagging BUT because you win AA does not mean you are AAA ready. just because the AAA needs an even amount of teams for scheduling or travel, doesn't mean that teams NEED to be AAA just because "on paper" we feel that they can compete. we just need to put out a questionnaire and see why teams want to be in this league and what they want from a season. i'm sure the REV have a different focus going into a season than the Guardians. Some teams just want to play 8 games and survive the season without folding. if a team loses every game because they are playing above their talent level, players jump ship or stop showing up. There are no fans which means that they pay for a field and get nothing back to help with travel. This creates the forfeits and guys finding better things to do on a saturday. I do not condone forfeits but I feel like we set teams up to fail. Teams that ALWAYS feel like they have a chance to win will ALWAYS travel well. teams that don't tend to have a domino effect. teams that have 20 "ballers" can afford to miss 5 for a travel game. if a team only has 5 ballers and 3 of those ballers cannot travel, other guys see that their chance to win diminishes and they also jump ship. a 0-7 team from idaho traveling to utah to play the 1-6 cobras is probably more likely than a 0-7 team traveling to st. george to play the 7-0 lions. the problem isn't completely on the team. the problem is also that we have a lot of teams pitted against teams that they shouldn't be on the field with. if we step back for a second and look at the results of the games in the northern conference, nobody is undefeated OR even with only 1 loss. that's parity because anyone can beat anyone. in the southern conference, the only teams that beat the top 3 teams are well....the top 3 teams.....other than the "upset" loss of the shock to the stampede. somehow we are focused on the playoff seeding and forfeits and missing the underlying issue. we talk about catering to teams but we have done it since i joined the league.....2010 it was the stampede. 2011 and 2012 it was the gladiators. 2013 it was the AA which left us with 5 AAA teams. 2014 it was the AAA because they only had 5 teams. 2015 it was to account for teams folding. we talk about teams folding and attach it to idaho but we fail to attach it to the fact that some of those teams were AAA teams, (regardless of where they were from) and that created the initial problem with only having 5 AAA teams. 2012.....Spartans (IDAHO) folded, Stampede (UTAH) folded or whatever they did, Gladiators (MONTANA) dropped down and Bulldawgs (IDAHO) dropped down. Not one AA team had ANYTHING to do with that. In 2012. In 2012 and 2013, the AA structure was perfect and had no problems except for the Generals not moving up and we changed it. Let's all take our OWN teams out of the equation and think of the LEAGUE.....i mean SERIOUSLY think of the league instead of just saying it. The "Power 4" (maybe 3 now) want the playoffs one way so they don't see each other until the championship game. Let's be honest. We create the structure already knowing who the finalists will be. Does that not lack integrity to anyone? The rest of the league wants a structure so they can have a chance at a consolation prize. Again, we are basically "throwing a bone" to every team outside of the "big boys" so they will agree to play the "big boys". Forget all the talk about the NFL and ANY other league. We actually had a time when we were going to create one league and then separate the "power" teams when the playoffs started knowing that the rest of the teams would not have a chance. What are we doing? The Lions and REV and head and shoulders above ALL teams in this league and i respect the hell out of them. The Shock are right on the cusp as they prove EVERY year. The only teams they lose to are those two teams and they get my respect too. After that, we are all "just the rest". I think the Loco Express team is REAL GOOD as well but in a different market. I don't think the Utah teams are better than the Idaho/Montana teams. I think the Power teams are better than EVERYONE! Again, i'm not agreeing with either side.....I'm just saying that we should take a second to ask the GMs what they want or feel like the league can provide them and let's find a way to provide that so every team can be successful. I don't think we should eliminate the Idaho/Montana teams because the "ALL UTAH" isn't the answer. Not all Utah teams would buy into that or be interested in that. Let's find a way to divide the league so everyone can suit up on saturday and feel like they got what they PAID for. If we can't than why are we here?
-- Edited by GORILLA20 on Monday 15th of June 2015 02:16:03 PM
-- Edited by GORILLA20 on Monday 15th of June 2015 02:16:19 PM
-- Edited by GORILLA20 on Monday 15th of June 2015 02:57:24 PM
I get where you are coming from. But the Panthers also went and played some other team within their conference. they didn't have to play someone in the other conference. We should stay in our conferences throughout the playoffs, otherwise what is the point of having conferences? To avoid having a 2014 Super Bowl every year in the RMFL, we should have conferences that are not based on geography. We all know and recognize who the best two teams are in this league. We should put them in separate conferences, and let the season play out that way. Otherwise, just get rid of conferences, because they are pointless if we cross-seed during the playoffs.
i'd say the point of having the conferences is to avoid travel during the season. Let the conference winners get a benefit from winning in the first round and then make it happen
Pretty sure the Panthers played the Cardinals first round who wasn't in their division. They got the first round host because of winning their division (which was booty). Arizona was 11-5 and Carolina was 7-8-1. After the first round, team with the better record hosts. Would save first round travel but would reward teams for winning all year, not just against their division. You can't have the playoffs only be within conference til the Ship because we only have half the teams as the NFL. I don't think anyone agrees that's a good solution. However, I agree it's good to reward teams for winning their conference. Kudos to Laurel for getting the #1 seed in the North. Your reward is hosting the #4 seed from the North. However, getting to host a second round game against a team that beat you and has a better record makes no sense. So #1 vs. #4, #2 vs. #3 from both conferences play, just like this year. Then reseed according to record, head to head, SOS, etc. So you keep conferences to help with travel during the regular season and to reward teams for winning their conference in the first round. Not rocket science but I think this is a good solution.
Both teams are NFC same CONFERENCE, not same division. I have never seen cross conference playing, in any league, in the playoffs. Look at any other league, from NFL to Pop Warner, you stay in your bracket the whole way throughout the playoffs. Now, this is the RMFL, and we can do whatever the hell we want. Just because it works in every other league in the world, we are still going to change it. The problem is, you set your self up for sandbagging, and forfeits when you start cross-conference play in the playoffs. Some teams are not willing to play their hardest, when they know the consequences of winning, means next week they have to travel to St. George, or to the REV... Either way, the most popular option will get voted in, and we will hear complaining for the whole season. Whether its Big 3 teams that have to travel to a team they are better than, or Northern teams that don't want to travel in the second round, because they earned the #1 seed, and don't feel they should have to travel.
